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Maintaining current minimum FO qualifications

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Maintaining current minimum FO qualifications

Old 05-22-2017, 06:43 AM
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Default Maintaining current minimum FO qualifications

As your constituent, a professional airline pilot, and a member of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), I am writing to bring your attention to a matter that is important to pilots, the flying public and me personally: upholding landmark aviation safety legislation, the Airline Safety and FAA Extension Act of 2010. This law significantly improved training and qualification requirements for first officers – and improved the safety of our skies. It is a measure that was written in blood, and should not be weakened in any way, shape or form. I am asking you to ensure that any pilot flying with me has the training necessary to be a safe and successful commercial airline pilot.

The Federal Aviation Administration has identified 31 accidents over a nine-year period that government and industry designed the current minimum qualifications to address. These included four fatal accidents that cost 150 people their lives. Since the FAA implemented the new qualifications in 2013, our country has not had a single passenger fatality due to an accident on a scheduled U.S. passenger airliner (Part 121). The qualifications include a minimum number of hours controlling aircraft (1,500 hours for pilots without formal classroom training), training specifications, and other safety protocols. There is a direct correlation between the decline of accidents and these mandates.

There are special interests in Washington, D.C. who, for reasons of profit, seek to weaken our air safety regulations. Some claim these standards are too stringent and reduce the number of pilots available. But let’s be clear; there real shortage falls with our regional airlines and its willingness to pay qualified pilots a decent salary. That is where we should focus. Degrading U.S. aviation safety requirements is not the solution for our airlines’ economic problem.

Furthermore, the facts clearly show that there is not currently a pilot shortage in the U.S. Since July 2013, the FAA issued more than 25,500 active Air Transport Pilot (ATP) certificates, the certification required to serve as a professional commercial airline pilot. That number exceeds even the most optimistic pilot forecast needs.

Most airlines enjoy an excess of pilot applicants. Regional airlines that have increased compensation, added flow-through opportunities to mainline carriers, and created better working environments have seen a large increase in applicants for pilot jobs. The small number of carriers unable to attract pilots offer poor compensation packages and working conditions, and inadequate career opportunities. We should not jeopardize safety because some small air carriers aren’t willing to fairly compensate commercial airline pilots.

Professional pilots are highly qualified, technically trained individuals with the skills to choose many other career paths. Your safety is my top priority on each and every flight. Join us in keeping our air safety system the safest mode of transportation in the world. I urge you to support common sense and oppose any attempts to change the Airline Safety and FAA Extension Act of 2010. I look forward to hearing back from you on this very important issue.

PS Keeping the first officer qualifications where they are also enables student pilots to complete training. Flight schools are actually very happy that their instructors must stay to build experience, while at the same time teaching our next generation of pilots. Lowering first officer hiring requirements will impact the training process, leaving no one qualified to teach.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:25 AM
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I do have to say I didnt come back into aviation until I saw the 1st year pay go up, before that I was fine flying for fun on the weekends.

I also know a buddy of mine leaving the military (rotary) because he can now afford to feed his family on current regional pay, so I can see there is no shortage of pilots, just a whole group that wont work for peanuts.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by yeahbutstill View Post
I do have to say I didnt come back into aviation until I saw the 1st year pay go up, before that I was fine flying for fun on the weekends.

I also know a buddy of mine leaving the military (rotary) because he can now afford to feed his family on current regional pay, so I can see there is no shortage of pilots, just a whole group that wont work for peanuts.
Correct. Embry-Riddle did a study about 2 years ago asking how much would the regionals have to pay for you to return to aviation? $40k was pretty much the low end of what people would accept. The majority want to see $60-70k enrty level to make a jump.

https://youtu.be/Mx9Ry4ocy98

The video is a recent Embry-Riddle discussion of the "pilot shortage," the current airline pilot says there is an applicant shortage, not a pilot shortage due to lack of compensation and work rules...on the regional level.

The Dean of the college of aviation goes on to say that the ATP rule allows his school to keep flight instructors just barely long enough to teach the next CFIs. Also attrition is down for students since they can finally see career progression.

Last edited by Groundpointfife; 05-22-2017 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Added sentence
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:41 AM
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This isn't a discussion, it's propagandaaaaaaaa.

We get it ALPA. Restricting the pilot supply raises wages. But do we all really have to join in in pretending the 1500-Hour Rule is about safety? Political BS is at an all time high in this country. Don't foist more of it on us.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by whyvee View Post
This isn't a discussion, it's propagandaaaaaaaa.

We get it ALPA. Restricting the pilot supply raises wages. But do we all really have to join in in pretending the 1500-Hour Rule is about safety? Political BS is at an all time high in this country. Don't foist more of it on us.
Actually it is a discussion. To argue the point of safety...AF447.
Pierre-Cédric Bonin, the flying pilot was a company baby with only a few hundred hours (read his CPL training) before he was placed into jet transport operations​.

How will putting a wet commercial certificate pilot next to a 1000 hour or if they can swing it a wet ATP Captain go? When we last saw guys getting hired with 250 hours and a wet commercial there were a lot less automated aircraft and more experienced Captains​ at the airlines with more automation. We really didn't have everyone upgrading in under a year onto jets. Mostly turboprop operators​ had quick upgrades, but people had to do a lot more hand flying.

Part of experience is knowing that the aircraft is not doing what you'd like, and having the sense to kick off the automation until it is on the correct path at an appropriate altitude. If the pilot feels it's appropriate to re-engage the automation, then they can choose to do so.

Mostly there needs to be more emphasis on curriculum for hand flying. The pitch/power (thrust) relationship.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Groundpointfife View Post
Actually it is a discussion. To argue the point of safety...AF447.
Pierre-Cédric Bonin, the flying pilot was a company baby with only a few hundred hours (read his CPL training) before he was placed into jet transport operations​.

How will putting a wet commercial certificate pilot next to a 1000 hour or if they can swing it a wet ATP Captain go? When we last saw guys getting hired with 250 hours and a wet commercial there were a lot less automated aircraft and more experienced Captains​ at the airlines with more automation. We really didn't have everyone upgrading in under a year onto jets. Mostly turboprop operators​ had quick upgrades, but people had to do a lot more hand flying.

Part of experience is knowing that the aircraft is not doing what you'd like, and having the sense to kick off the automation until it is on the correct path at an appropriate altitude. If the pilot feels it's appropriate to re-engage the automation, then they can choose to do so.

Mostly there needs to be more emphasis on curriculum for hand flying. The pitch/power (thrust) relationship.
Yeah but the "experience" they are getting to the 1500 hrs isn't this amazing quality that in and of itself making safer pilots. I had a 1300 hr CFI that can most likely kill most of us on the Private Pilot maneuvers fly me out to KS to ferry an airplane about a month ago. I can tell you that 95% of his "flying" is not flying at all but monitoring a student. I could fill a page worth of stuff this guy was VERY rusty of not dangerous on (ATC radio comms, hand flying and trimming the plane, looking down and then back up and we're 30 degrees off course, etc, etc...)

1500 is not a magical number, it is how they are being trained and how they are flying.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:01 PM
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Great topic. Its not the number of hours, but the quality of them. I know plenty of 5-800 hour pilots who scare the **** out of me in a Cessna, and I know some 100 hour privates or some not even there yet who I know would be more careful behind the yoke. 1500 is political, yes theres a level of experience obtained by 1500 but every airline pilot who has discusses this topic with me has said.... "wohhh theyre upgrading at 12-18 months??? that's far too soon. That captain is way under qualified to fly!!! The 1500 desperation has caused an unseen issue with flow to captain or upgrade. These Fo's going captain are no more squirly than a 3-500 hour "atp"
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:54 PM
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I agree that it's not the 1500 hours that make a pilot, but rather the quality of the time. I'd much rather a 500 hour UND, ERAU, WMU.. etc grad in the right seat than some guy who rented a 150 and did circles in it.

But with that being said, I think the ATP/R-ATP rule weeds out the guys who don't have the motivation to CFI.

Plus who will instruct if we do lower the FO minimum qualifications?
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Groundpointfife View Post
I agree that it's not the 1500 hours that make a pilot, but rather the quality of the time. I'd much rather a 500 hour UND, ERAU, WMU.. etc grad in the right seat than some guy who rented a 150 and did circles in it.

But with that being said, I think the ATP/R-ATP rule weeds out the guys who don't have the motivation to CFI.

Plus who will instruct if we do lower the FO minimum qualifications?
Interesting statement. I didn't feel like getting a CFI rating... Yet. I'm saving that for my retirement job. There are other ways of building experience. A summer of banner towing followed by a winter of Picto survey work put me over the top. It's not for everyone but worked for me. Should I be weeded out?

I should add; There was I survey pilot I did a project with. He was a CFII/MEI ERAU Grad. He busted CVG's Bravo 3 times in one day. He got lost trying to find a hotel in a small desert town with one main road. He was given a vector in Phoenix's bravo to a VFR corridor and dang near busted that airspace too. He is a FO and a regional now.
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:35 AM
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I don't believe requiring 1500 hours is the magic formula to a perfectly safe industry. As we all know, results will vary drastically based on the pilots natural skill, intellect, coordination, and experience. Having said that, I do believe the 1500 hour rule has and will continue to improve safety.
I realize the naysayers argue that it doesn't help to require 1500 hours because people can just tow banners and flight instruct their way to the airlines instead. I partially agree- We might really see some improvement if there were some kind of clause in there requiring certain type of operations (for example 500 hours flying charter operations in certain types of aircraft). However, with the current rule requiring 1500 hours we are at least forcing hours to gain experience. Some might get all those hours towing banners and flight instructing, alright fine. But others might instruct for a 6-12 months and then a charter job might be offered their way and they finish their hours doing that before heading to the regionals.
My point is even though it isn't the magic solution, I think the results of the 1500 rule are an improvement on safety if anything. Accident statistics speak for themselves. My only wish to improve it more would be to further require different types/operations to force the experience.
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