Envoy Flow Question
03-25-2017, 03:57 PM
#21
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Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by rabsing76
I'm considering going to Envoy - the primary thing attracting me there is the flow. I know it would be a while, but that's fine, I can be patient.
However, I was talking with an AA pilot and he said that for flow, AA will only be required to take 800 some more pilots - after that, pilots will still flow, but AA can say no... which to me makes it worthless. If I go to Envoy, I want that guarantee.
Can someone get me some factual details about the Envoy Flow program?
However, I was talking with an AA pilot and he said that for flow, AA will only be required to take 800 some more pilots - after that, pilots will still flow, but AA can say no... which to me makes it worthless. If I go to Envoy, I want that guarantee.
Can someone get me some factual details about the Envoy Flow program?
03-25-2017, 04:24 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
This is 100% accurate what the AA pilot said. AA can deny pilots based on discipline. Too many MAs/sick calls or other discipline issues will keep you from flowing. The 824 only has a CA requirement but the rest of us have to be good boys and girls.
03-25-2017, 04:28 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
This is 100% accurate what the AA pilot said. AA can deny pilots based on discipline. Too many MAs/sick calls or other discipline issues will keep you from flowing. The 824 only has a CA requirement but the rest of us have to be good boys and girls.
After the 824 comes the protected pilots and being "good boys and girls" has absolutely no impact. And then for the rest after the 824 and after the protected pilots AND if you get disciplined for attendance they could hold you back. But there is nothing said that after 800 more flows it they can say "no." I have no idea where that's coming from, because it's not true.
03-25-2017, 05:04 PM
#24
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Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by bigtime209
The Protected Pilot group doesn't have the CA requirement nor does it have the "no open disciplinary issues" clause. That's all for those hired after 10/2011. But regardless, I think the OP was implying that an AA pilot assumed that AAG can stop the flow whenever they want for any reason they want.
Regardless, AA can deny the OP the chance to flow. Without question the OP does not have a guaranteed spot at AA.
I'm half drunk and even I can understand what he was asking about. Sky vector and everyone else on here is just a bit to trigger happy to defend the flow. And yes we all know AA can shut the flow down when ever they so desire even if we have it written on a piece of paper. As the old saying goes fly it and grieve it.
03-25-2017, 05:21 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
Ok I'm not a PP so I'm not as informed on your rules as my group.
Regardless, AA can deny the OP the chance to flow. Without question the OP does not have a guaranteed spot at AA.
I'm half drunk and even I can understand what he was asking about. Sky vector and everyone else on here is just a bit to trigger happy to defend the flow. And yes we all know AA can shut the flow down when ever they so desire even if we have it written on a piece of paper. As the old saying goes fly it and grieve it.
Regardless, AA can deny the OP the chance to flow. Without question the OP does not have a guaranteed spot at AA.
I'm half drunk and even I can understand what he was asking about. Sky vector and everyone else on here is just a bit to trigger happy to defend the flow. And yes we all know AA can shut the flow down when ever they so desire even if we have it written on a piece of paper. As the old saying goes fly it and grieve it.
The op asked if they can or will/could just stop the flow at 800 or so? The answer is NO. Right now is the 824, then protected pilots...no one can be held back for discipline (outside being fired) in those groups. Then the rest, who can be held back on an individual bases for letters of discipline. There is NO WHERE saying that at magical number 800 (or any other number) they can just say no more flows or anything like that. That was the question.
And to answer him (or any other new hire/candidate), as long as AA hires you flow...plain and simple. I guess as long as you don't have disciplinary letters in your file, it's not guess work. Be patient and wait your turn and it'll come (again assuming they're hiring, which is what all future hiring at all airlines is projected upon).
03-25-2017, 05:44 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: EMB-145
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by Abort
AA hiring is based on the economy, which as we all know is a cycle. Once the economy turns south, the hiring will stop along with the flow through.
The gamble all new hires face is, do you think you can get hired and flow through before the economy turns? If you guess right, fantastic. If you guess wrong, you might end up stuck as an FO at step 4 pay without bonuses.
My advice would be to try to get on with a regional that offers good career advancement, but at the same time would be acceptable for the long term if needed. Also, don't underestimate quality-of-life issues.
The gamble all new hires face is, do you think you can get hired and flow through before the economy turns? If you guess right, fantastic. If you guess wrong, you might end up stuck as an FO at step 4 pay without bonuses.
My advice would be to try to get on with a regional that offers good career advancement, but at the same time would be acceptable for the long term if needed. Also, don't underestimate quality-of-life issues.
03-25-2017, 06:23 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
This is 100% accurate what the AA pilot said. AA can deny pilots based on discipline. Too many MAs/sick calls or other discipline issues will keep you from flowing. The 824 only has a CA requirement but the rest of us have to be good boys and girls.
03-25-2017, 08:01 PM
#29
Cactus Aviator
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Learning to fly with my left hand.
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by TeeRainPULup
Do they stop all the mandatory retirement if the economy goes down? I doubt it.
Haven't been in the biz that long have you.
03-25-2017, 08:16 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by JetMonkey
No, but they start to cut capacity which reduces mainline flying which reduces the need for pilots even with attrition.
Haven't been in the biz that long have you.
Haven't been in the biz that long have you.
Thanks for Scott Kirby...boy was he fun.
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