Piedmont vs. Envoy
 

I am prior military (non-pilot) relocating to Florida with my family and am stuck between choosing these 2 regionals. Piedmont seems like a great gig except for the schedules, plus I would have to commute from Orlando. However, short upgrade time and short PROJECTED flow through. Not that the flow should really matter but if all else fails I would still rather a shorter wait for AA.
Envoy would be great because I could live in base, however no guarantee I would get the E145. I know there are barely any CRJ slots but it's still a concern since I am pretty young relatively speaking and don't want to commute to ORD. Also, people seem happier at Piedmont than Envoy...even the recruiter seemed a little disgruntled with Envoy. That being said I could be home more.
So is a commute worth it for a quick upgrade/possible quick flow through of about 5 years or worse case scenario stay at home and flow in 7 years?
My family and I are use to being spearated for extended periods of time, but I would like to see my son grow up too.
Please keep all replies respectfull.

Piedmont has both the fasted Projected and actual flow... folks are currently flowing at the 4-5 year mark at PDT vs... 12.5? At Envoy. Piedmont is expanding- taking 2 jets a month this year and 3 jets a month next year. Piedmont's schedules aren't great but at least there's no reserve time as either a FO or Captain once you upgrade.

Apparently Envoy had someone (assuming prior 121) bid for CA in 4 months. Piedmont is sitting at about 6-8 for prior 121 folk and 12-18 months for non prior airline.

You'll get arguments for and against both. Both are strong, stable companies (at least at the moment). You should apply to both, interview and see which is the right fit for you. Neither is perfect by any means but there are plenty of worse places out there.

I would hesitate to tell you to commute to Piedmont, but the quick flow is true here. I would get the projected flow number from Envoy and compare. I might trade anything less than 12 months for a nice in-base QOL.

I've commuted in the past and now I live in base. There is nothing like living in base.

Piedmont isn't flowing 4-5 year pilots yet, but will soon. Aside from a smaller group, Piedmont didn't hire from 09-10, and there are just a few handful of hires from 11 and 12. This is why the flow is working well and should continue to do so as long as the economy stays good.

envoy offers 3 month upgrades, flow to AA and E175's. Plus you are an AA pilots the moment you are hired at envoy.

Envoy does not have a true 3 month upgrade for 0 time 121 pilots. That 3 month upgrade had prior 121 time. Pilots starting out with zero 121 time will take at least 1.5 years to reach the required 121 times. So stop saying Envoy has 3 month upgrades. You need to look at how long a guy with zero time is upgrading.

I'm actually home more because I commute. I can bid overnights in the city I live in.

I'm curious why not PSA? All 3 WOs are a great choice for someone looking at a regional airline but if you can't get the 145 in MIA, then commuting to CLT or DCA will likely be easier than a commute to PHL.

In a nutshell:

PSA: best QOL of the 3 WOs, worst flow language
Piedmont: best flow language of the 3 WOs, bad schedules and only PHL is commutable
Envoy: bad schedules and good flow right now but it will decrease with time, best bases for commuting and 175 (if that's a consideration of yours)

Of the 2 options you've laid out I would go with Envoy IF you may be able to get the 145 in MIA. If not go with Piedmont.

Yes, they are. 5 and it's about to be 6 per month. Also have the best flow language out of the 3 WO'd airlines.

You have to do your homework and decide what is best for you. That being said, I think Piedmont has far fewer issues and much more positive environment. Flow, upgrade, health benefits, just to name a few. And yes, we are "real" AA pilots, too....:rolleyes:

Thanks everyone for your respectful input. I had an interview with Envoy last month and Piedmont today; accepted to both and chose Piedmont! Sure, commuting will suck, but I am hopeful the schedules will get better as more pilots come in. Other than those two negatives I see nothing but positives about Piedmont.
It would be great to go to Envoy and fly out of Miami, but no guranteed I'd get that and plus it seems like it is going to be Way senior. Also, if they closed the base once who is to say they aren't going to close it again?
Thank you again, safe travels and blue skies.

It sounds like a mistake in my opinion. It sounds like you are older and would have no problem getting the 145 in training. Movement is crazy right now at Envoy and MIA would be available rather quickly (a few months at most). Best of luck to you in your decision.

Agreed. Choosing a commute when all else is equal makes no sense.

Ask yourself where you'd like to be stuck if the industry takes a sudden downturn.....talk to guys that lived through 9/11 and got to experience "the lost decade".....if being based in MIA in that scenario is better than commuting for a decade, that's your answer. Planning solely as a stepping stone saw lots of people who jumped to Comair suddenly unemployed.

Congratulations and welcome! Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions. Jody and the recruiters are great and very helpful.

Mainly because the thread was Envoy vs Piedmont... "Bad" schedules is a relative term, but your assesment of the three is not wrong.

Bro, we have the best flow, you are an AA pilot from the first day at envoy plus we have the E175.

Commuting vs. living in base is the difference between two totally different jobs. Best of luck with the commuting. I won't go back to that for anything.

Welcome to Piedmont. Just curious, did they offer a class date to you? Interested in knowing how far out people are getting class dates at this point.

Last check was August interviews for December/January classes. Folks are regularly getting advanced in classes if they're flexible and willing to be put on a waiting list for an earlier class date.

Thanks! They offered me November, but I asked to be put on the October waiting list in case I had my hours by then.

Military Transition Program
 

Congrats to the OP!

Question: are you using the MTP, or paying for your training outright? Does Piedmont still offer their MTP? I wasn't able to find it on their website at all, though it's buried in a January 2017 posting in their "News" section.

Thanks

Ummm... Piedmont has the best flow language??? Have you read the flow language? Piedmont’s flow language is not even in the same ballpark as Envoy’s. Who sold you that garbage?

Military Transition Program:
Piedmont Airlines > Military Transition Program

Huh? Please explain what you mean. I've never seen a current Envoy pilot on our (AA) seniority list...

Edit: just realized, maybe you're a troll.

If an Envoy or PSA pilot does not successfully complete training at AA, do they have flow back rights into their former position with seniority? Not trying to start a 'My flow is better than your flow' war, but i believe there to be a little bit of misinformation floating around on our side that one or both other WOs don't have that same protection as we do here at PDT.

I'm not well versed in the ENY flow and believe it's more intricate as it decreases as time continues, but was under the impression ENY and PDT flow times are predicted to be similar within a few months for a new applicant. It really shouldn't be a deal breaker for someone trying to decide between the two in my opinion.

Piedmont pilots are entitled to their seniority if they separate from AA prior to the completion of OE, for any reason.

I believe the "language" is the same at all 3. The numbers are the only difference.

PSA pilots retain their seniority until after they complete training at AA.

Nope. If you fail out of AA you do not get your seniority back at Envoy. If you fail out at AA then there is something wrong with you. We don't want you back. We got rid of a few crazies that way.

That would be a negative ghostrider.

Envoy is the exception then. We also had a couple guys here at PDT withdraw for personal reasons and I'm glad they got their seniority back. They earned it, crazy or not.

Envoy looks at it as a liability. Their view is that if a pilot isn't competent enough to pass AA training then they have no business being behind the controls of one of our aircraft. Withdrawing for personal reasons is something different though.