Pinnacle Contract
 

The rumblings are that the contract might be signed in the next 2 weeks. If this is true, we could get a much needed moral boost. I have heard the fo's will be compensated much much more than they are now. :D

That would be great, I am interviewing with pinnacle next month so a new contract would be great.

Why are they scheduling interviews a month in advanced? What is your interview date?

ALLATPS?

I am interviewing April 11

you aren't kidding brother. The "guy" even said in the conference call he is ready to sign the ta for most of the contract, they will be working on compensation this week. I sincerely believe that because we held out for a GOOD contract that this place will actually be a very good place to work. our mec proves why a union is a good thing to have. they haven't put up with any thing and we will have the contract to prove it.

I have to admit I just went to airlineapps.com and had them submit mine to pinnacle. I'm really wishing for the best for you guys. Both of my CFI's worked there. One said it was ok the other didn't like it. On a side note I thought this had to go through by like March 4th or something like that? PS. I look all over and can't find it. What's MEC stand for? Majority Elected Chairman?

hahaha,, you mean like the other 5 deadlines we had and said HELL NO too?? technically there is a march 31 deadline, but i am sure that is as firm as the others.

The March 31st deadline was imposed by the latest ASA (Airline Service Agreement) with NWA. Basically it says if we can't get our ducks in a roll by the end of March, they can take away 15 RJs away... But NWA has put so much flying to 9E there's really no way that's gonna happen, unless they can pick up the flying themselves...

MEC = Master Executive Council. Basically it's the Congress of an airline union. The LEC (Local Executive Council) votes in the guys in MEC, and therefore represents all the little guys within the airline. The general population eligible union pilots votes in the LEC guys. We have 3 LECs councils, one for each base we have, i.e. MSP, DTW and MEM. Hope it make sense.

Congrats, guys! How long has it been since your contract was amended?

Its been since may of 05, its important to note that, we have not gotten a contract yet, but its looking more and more positive each day. Thanks for your support

I have been hearing the same good news as this thread is saying. Wake was in ops a few days ago (dont remember exactly when) and said negotiations have been night and day compared to just a while ago. He seemed pretty happy about progress. I am really excited about it. I have been able to "live" on first year FO pay but a little more may allow me to "play" and live a little. The only gripe I have heard is that it doesnt look like retro pay will be in full (saw that coming!) but for me its not a huge thing- but for CA's who have been here since the contract became amendable it is a big deal. I also was hearing that we are getting the 15 -900's out of SLC for delta but that wont be announced until comair is all shaked out and we have a SIGNED contract. I love the rumors but realistically a contract would be great to see. We have enough attrition and a shortage that the 15 and a new hub on the other side of the country wouldn't be big deal right now (to me at least). I do haveta say that it seems that the people who have been here a while have been burned by mgmt to the point where they are playing these talks very "hardnosed" which helps everyone on the flying side. I dont regret my decision to come here. Pretty much every CA and FA I have flown with has been really nice and professional and it makes a 4-day a pleasure even when by day 4 all you want is sleep and a real meal. That is the blog of the week for me...:D Its all good this week....

:D
I'm even happier now to be starting training in Memphis in a couple weeks.

MEC = Master Executive Council..... basically its the top couple of ALPA reps. in our entire company.........

Just looked at pennicles mins. they must not be hurting as much for pilots as other guys they are still sitting at 200 multi.

Wait a minute... is he allowed to say that? I thought these forums were only for complaining about the regional life

I think that's the best post i've read since i've been on here (I was lurking before my measly 20 posts)

Or the website hasnt been updated..... rest assure if you have even 100 multi you could probably get an interview.... hell we hired an academy guy with 170tt not too long ago...:mad: I'd be willing to bet he couldn't have had more than 10 or 15 of multi...

Well I will take that as a compliment- thanks.


But on the other note as far as mins and whatnot- its who you know and how much you spent. We do hire the 250-hour ATP guys. The interviewing off the street seems to be at 800/100 not the 1000/200 the site says. It really helps to have a little more multi and to have a current pilot send in your resume.

The great thing with pinnacle is that the people are great, the upgrades are quick, and you will be able to have QOL within a few months with the current attrition. I will have a line next month in the most senior base and this is only my 4th month of bidding while being the most junior guy in my new hire class (goes by bday). I would have held a line in the most junior base at my 2nd month of bidding- but I happen to be from/live in the most senior base. Attrition is high here though- we are losing at least one pilot a day (by far more CAs than FOs) and the CA's are heading to majors for the most part. Pinnacle gets knocked sometimes, but after a good contract that appears to be here soon I think that will change a bit.

I heard from a CA in the crew room that he flew with a guy with 1.5 IMC time.

Some how I am not suprised..... I remember one time I was flying with a Captain who told me that the FO he had flown with prior to me said to him (during a rainy night time approach low vis and all) "I don't mean to scare you but this is the first time I've ever flown an ILS in actual IMC."

not to go on a sidebar but... before I was hired at 9E I was instructing at a collegiate university (under 141 rules) and many instructors were against flying in IMC any more than required, and students (while solo) couldnt even go actual with the instr. ticket (insurance was blamed for this). When I got hired I had over 50hrs actual, but most of that was accumulated when I was flying a twin for the multi column. I do believe there is a actual min for the ATP cert- correct me if I am wrong here. On one hand you gotta say "first time for everything" but on the other hand that "first time" should have been in the training environment- either with an instructor towards the end of the IFR ticket, or as a CFII.... just my opinion on that there.. Although when you do fly an approach to actual mins its still an exciting experience for me..... 100 to go..... "minimums" .LIGHTS... CONTINUI-LANDING!

Wow!:eek:

But on another note when I was teaching there I had one 250+kid that was all aces. Felt like I was in his seat.:D

Ive heard some guys here at UND already have an interview with Pinnacle after graduation, most with a grand total of 0 dual given. How do Captains over there treat these guys in the cockpit? Ive heard some get on them pretty good.

Lets see:
You are a no experience pilot and the Captain has up to 50 Souls on Board. The weather is bad, airplane has broke items that affect procedures, lmitations.
You can't find the gear handle with a map.
Can't talk on radio, do not understand the ATC Instructions.

Sure makes sense that the Captain should have as his first priority concern for your feelings, and leading you by the hand through the aviation world.
You may get hiried by a desparate company, just do not expect that people will carry you.

Get some real experience: fly freight, rent an airplane and fly in some night IMC by yourself, then maybe you will be able to hold the gear handle and the radio tuner at the same time.

Make sure you use "Student Pilot Flagship" call-sign.

hahaha you're probably right

When I hit the line I didnt have 100 hours in type yet so I had to tell the captain that I didnt have my 100 hours consolidation of knowledge yet- most guys were cool and would say things like "well I am sure I will teach you something" and they were really nice. Some asked the question- are you a ATP or Gulfstream guy? I would answer "no" and the next question was "well how much time do you have?" When I told them they would chill out and say something to the effect of "you have flown a plane before!" or " wow, someone who actually meets the published mins". the scary thing is that out of the people who didnt make it through all the way to the line we figured out that (in my class at least) it was a 50/50 split between really low timers and the other half being higher time guys. We had one guy leave during sims when he had over 2500 hours and 1500 hours in lears- explain that... So evidently some of the guys can do it, and if not I guess they just learn quickly...:rolleyes: ... I still think 800/100 should be the bare mins but thats just my opinion. What will be interesting to see is what happpens when all these guys/gals reach captain seniority but cant upgrade due to the 3000 hours company min...

[quote=higney85;133306]Some asked the question- are you a ATP or Gulfstream guy? I would answer "no" and the next question was "well how much time do you have?"

It would be nice to get a new contract, or at least here fact and not fiction about the details within the contract. The majority of guys who come from ATP were instructors. I worked there for 18 months and got hired with 650/500, which isn't the highest but I don't have a problem with saying I came from there.

[QUOTE=ctd57;133322]I dont want you to take it the wrong way. I was just passing off what was has been said to me by a few capts. I think they were refering to those who came from ATP with 250 hours. There are some of those guys- a couple were in my class. Great guys and I dont have 1 quam with em, yet I do think -industrywide- there should be higher mins for FO's- since currently its only a commercial/multi. Just my opinion. I hold nothing against someone who is in the industry or a fellow co-worker. Each person has a different path to get to the same place. There are many instructors who were at ATP, but you must admit that there is a big difference in someone just out of training with 250 hours compared to someone with even just 500 hours (after instructing for 250). Instructing, or just flying in general outside of being trained teaches you soo much. I know personally I learned the most in the time from 250 to 500 hours when I had students and had to teach things the first time and learn what students mess up on without them even realizing they were doing something wrong b/c they didnt know any better.

Well I cant speak for all captains.... my theroy is be civil.... no I don't like them and I definately don't think its fair that they occupy spots that could be filled with much more deserving and harder working CFI's and 135 pilots but ultimately it's not my choice.... As for getting on them well if someone's messing up you have say something thats just part of excercising leadership and maintaining control..... Yes I have heard utterences of Captains doing "chew outs" but I have no first hand experience.... just the rumor mill.

higney85 and space monkey, I totally agree with both of you. Like other instructors, I learned the most about flying while teaching others, and also getting the !@#$ scared out of me a couple of times. You have no time to use your certificates and ratings. Those types of pilots have been students most of their flying career. At the same time, my sim partner during training wasn't one of them, and since I am not a captain, will never fly with one of those guys, so I don't know how well they perform. I did hear from one captain that he had personally experienced a lack of situational awareness with his FO.

Thats one of the biggest issues is Situational awareness and judgement..... At 170 hours they have none.... When I was a CFI that was my job to teach, babysit and sometimes if necessary spoon feed..... but all my CFI time was done in piston aircraft.... much simpler and slower than a jet and with much higher tolerances than a jet.... Sadly this is the line and while I agree people do need to develope themselves and grow I think a firm background should be required before they get to this level.... Methaphorically would you want a doctor that only has a bachelors or an associates degree no Med school. or would you want a para-legal as your lead council at a murder trial????? I think that the person with the bachelors should be given a chance to grow to be a doctor by going to the proper schools and interning to eventually being send into the world as a doctor. As well as if the para-legal wishes he or she should be able to go to law school.... but until that person has gained the required level of expertise they should not be doing trials and procedures.

I concur...

depressingly sadder and truer words never spoken.... but all great points!

I never thought of it that way. That is one of the best analogies I've heard.

dang, I was hopping to read peoples thoughts on the contract... seems to have turned into a fight about flight time again

ok ok... we should hear an update tommorrow night on the "payday hotline" I will make sure to plaster the latest and greatest on here. I am very excited about the contract- while it may not happen tommorrow, next week, month, year... Whenever it finally gets TA'd I am sure its going to be good. Those negotiating on the pilot's behalf are playing hardball and are backed up by a pilot group that is very unified. Management also has cards against them b/c not only is the pilot group antsy with em they have already settled with the FA's, big daddy NWA has now given MGMT a deadline- not MGMT telling the pilots "last and final BS". And on top of all of that PNCL MGMT wants to expand under all the banners that it can- hello Colgan- and cannot do anything else until it gets a contract. The contract will slow SOME attrition (mainly at the FO level) and will attract other pilots, as well other main line carriers who see we are professional and (by all accounts) stable. All of these items are prime motivators for MGMT and the PILOTS to get a contract- and a good one at that!:D

What are some current QOL things on your contract? Max duty day, junior man, min pay guarantee, typical lines, typical pay for four day trip, duty rigs, etc. I don't know anything about Pinnacle and I am curious as to what you have now. Thanks!