[XJT Portable Longevity Policy] HUH....wow.
 

SKW airlines also approved essentially the same thing today.

Link?
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I hate obscure titles. At least give us an inkling of what the threads going to be about.

It's about something that would make the average airline guy so "huh...wow". So I think it's pretty accurate.

No. You really should provide more info in your post.

Jesus...you guys will literally bit.ch about anything won't you?

The irony.. Complaining about complaining.

It would most definitely suck if all the thread titles were this stupid.

Pilots... What do you expect? :p

BTW, good luck to the recruiters with this one. People are smart enough to avoid this place like the plague.

I'm guessing ALPA is not sanctioning this?

Especially when there already was another thread on this subject.

ALPA is the only entity that can sanction this. Otherwise it doesn't happen.

Just to be clear, this is ALPA sanctioned?

Yes, only the bargaining representative, in this case ALPA, can negotiate and change pay rates and work rules.

So, was there an MOU? I don't recall seeing anything from ALPA.

Why would anyone with seniority worth anything want to go to xjet?

It's more for those that have been with a 121 airline, left the industry, and are now looking to get back in. Coming in at up to year 10 on the pay scale may entice them a little.

But why go to XJT anyway. SkyWest offers the same program and upgrade will happen a decade sooner.

I don't know, some people don't like Kool-Aid? Why go to either... The W.O. world is the place to be.

Lol. Ok. For the flow kool-aid?

Sure, at least you'll have something worth taking a swig for.

You should've received a joint MEC message. In it, it explains that they will publish the MOU and q&a by the end of the week.

Well at least it is carrot flavored.

You mean the company-funded SkyWest Student Council agreed with The Company?

What choice do they really have? They have zero bargaining power.

I'm surprised SkyWest didn't offer an extra year of longevity credit for pilots who jump from the union-represented subsidiary to the non-union SkyWest.



On the face, this looks like an infringement on seniority. However, since it means pay rate increases (and more dues income) for some pilots, I'm not surprised ALPA supported it.

Nice way to divide the pilots. Why negotiate a pay raise for everyone if you can negotiate a pay raise for just some pilots, right?

It should lead to some very interesting cockpit discussions. Who gets to pick up the bar tab?






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Actually the student council penned this thing that you guys adopted. Otherwise agree with everything you said.

I don't know who you mean by "you guys" -- it certainly wasn't me.

If the Student Council dreamed it up, I'm not surprised. American Airlines introduced the "B" Scale and suffered the revenge of the Killer B's. Now we'll have B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K scales.

Brilliant. :rolleyes:






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I don't disagree.

RJ's been on B-C scales for years......

Did I say anything about the student council? No...

How does it infringe on seniority when all of them start at the bottom of the seniority list?

If I fly with one of them, it won't affect me one bit. I'll be happy for the guy for not having to start over at first year pay. And I'll still buy the first round.

Of course you didn't. Maybe you can name and describe the collective bargaining agent which represents the pilots of SkyWest who agreed to the scheme.






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Ask me again when the guy you're flying with, hired 5 years after you, gets paid more and bids a better vacation than you.






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[XJT Portable Longevity Policy] HUH....wow.
 

I don't care how much he gets paid, it doesn't make my paycheck any less. Besides, an FO is always going be getting paid less than a captain. Even if I was a first year FO getting $37/hr and a 10 year longevity pilot is in the new hire class after mine, I wouldn't care that he will be making $45/hr. And when we upgrade, I wouldn't care if he makes $20/hr more than I. None of that reduces what I would get paid otherwise so why should I care?

And as for vacation, bidding is base/seat specific anyway. So his vacation bid will never affect me unless he is in my base/seat. And even then, he still bids after me since he will always be junior.

No one will be put ahead of anyone on the seniority. Therefore, no one's seniority is ever going to be infringed upon.

So, as long as it doesn't make your paycheck any less, you're OK with that? If everyone else got a $500 pay raise, but you stayed the same, that would be OK?

If The Company has money to spend on pay raises, why shouldn't ALL pilots share in the increase?

When it comes time during the next round of negotiations to choose between a pay raise and improving another benefit, don't be surprised when the 10-year benefactor is less interested in the pay raise than you are, because he already got his. You'll have different goals, and fuel for the internal pilot feud, instead of banding together towards common goals.

Lots of me, I, and mine ... whatever happened to we and us and our? You're not thinking about your collective best interests, and St. George is celebrating.


Won't affect me. Hang on to that selfish attitude.

How many days of vacation does a 1st year pilot get? How about the 10-year Captain? Vacation is an earned benefit. If the company can afford to hand out more vacation days, why not distribute them fairly, as in by seniority?


You apparently don't understand everything that seniority is supposed to give you.






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Tony, will all due respect, you're a SMART GUY. And the work you did on the SKW union drives is commendable. I don't have a "dog in the fight", just what my friends there give me;

Won't happen, and won't happen.

Agreed, on multiple facets. But the entire regional sector is going through some form of this now. but again, AGREE. Just raise the book rates for ALL SEATS instead of all this bonus crap. But as we ALL KNOW, that requires and ENTIRE negotiation process outside of normal contract talks. And the situation at the regionals is way more fluid/dynamic than the legacies.

Not likely, that guy will more than likely be capped out on the FO pay scale, with NO UPGRADE IN SIGHT and wanting MORE MONEY. At least, not at XJT anyway.

Again, agree.

But a lot of this debate centers around whatever perspective/viewpoint one has;

"Portability" of SOME time one put into this career? A semblance of national seniority? Wouldn't go that far.

But make no mistake, a new hire/FNG under this program won't be taking vacation slots from someone senior, and won't be out earning a CA, etc.

SGU maybe celebrating. But there's A LOT going on behind the scenes here. Mainly, the CPA with UAL and XJT that is controlled by SGU is NOW getting paid enough from UAL to allocate money for the raises, bonuses, profit share, "soft landings" and whatever else.

But we can take that back around, why not give that money to ALL PILOTS and all seats? Sure, sounds great. Till that "sourcing cost" is no longer in line with UCH's UAX people. In which case they just take more planes and give them to TSA, Commutair, whomever......

I understand seniority and longevity perfectly. I'm just not as fanatical about it as most all pilots.

Let me put it this way, I don't really care enough to get worked up about someone making $20/hr more than me. So it doesn't bother me if inc is celebrating. They've been celebrating for 7 years when our MEC rolled over on One List, which was astronomical more important than this. This has nothing to do with selfishness, on the contrary! I'm more than happy if people have it better now than I did when I was hired. I'm not one of those who feel that if I didn't get it, no one else should. Also, keep in mind that this is also a pilot group that allows pilots to come back with their seniority after being gone for as long as 90 days. And in fact, I would be okay with being more generous with that. I was part of the FFDWG that was working towards seniority portability back in 2008. I'm all for it, along with keeping longevity. So in other words, you couldn't be more completely and totally wrong about me. I'm one of the most generous pilots when it comes to letting pilots come over to my seniority list with all their benefits. As for negotiating pay rate increases or work rules, I'll pick work rules almost all the time. So that argument doesn't work either.

But that's not what's happening here. We something that allows longevity portability. And we are currently negotiating increase in pay rates for everyone. So like I said before, no one is coming here other than as a new hire at the bottom of the seniority list. Seniority and longevity are two separate and completely different things.

Let's be realistic here, I doubt anyone with previous 121 experience is going to come to XJT. Especially when then the other side of the operation is offering the same, but without years of eternal reserve and a decent upgrade time.

I didn't say anything about that at all. I said "Skywest". What do you think I meant by that? Hint: Not pilots.

Fair enough. You confused me with your use of the word "approved," which implies a process involving more than one party. If SkyWest wants to implement a program, they just implement it. No approval is required.


Classic "Union Busting 101" play.






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