dingo222

yeah, i've had to get released from a deadhead to make it home on a 16 hr issue. But them again, I work for colgan, hence the emphasis " I had to"

Pdt's Btch

If you look at the reg above it says "flight time". Since he was deadheading home (he didn't fly after the deadhead) this is legal. He just has to be able to look back 24 hours from the end of his last flight he operated and find 8 hours of rest. Not from the end of the deadhead. There is no 16 hour duty rule, only uninterrupted rest required between flight segments. You could legally deadhead for days without ever getting a break and to the FAA they wouldn't give a crap.

Now, deadheading before flights does count because you are not "on rest".

JetJock16

So you’re saying the following: (Let’s say his name is Joe)

Joe Duties in at 5:00 am for a FLT at 5:45. His last FLT ends at 20:00 (15 hours later). He has a 2 hour deadhead home officially ending his day at 22:00 (17 hours later).

You’re saying that because the deadhead isn’t FLT time that he only has to look back 24 hours from 20:00 pm and see 8 hours.

This doesn’t make since seeing that 8 hours of “Rest” in any 24 hour consecutive period is mandatory, regardless of FLT time for the day. If deadheading isn’t counted as rest then when he looks back 24 hours from 22:00 he will only see 7 hours of total rest. I understand that there isn’t a 16 hour rule; it’s actually an 8 hours of mandatory rest in any consecutive 24 hour span rule. The least amount of rest any crew member can receive in a 24 hour period is 8 hours. Anything less is considered continues duty and duty isn’t rest. Right?

kronan

There isn't quite enough information here to figure out whether he busted the regs or not.
You could go over 16 hours of duty time if it happened due to an unscheduled delay, as an example, you block out and your flight is scheduled to block in just over 15 hours, but, due to circumstances beyond your control (adverse weather) you get delayed beyond that, the Feds aren't going to hammer you the same way they would if you take off at the 15 hour point for a scheduled 1+01 flight.

And don't confuse duty time with block time. 8 hours of block time in a rolling 24 hour clock (looks backwards and forwards) imposes various amounts of rest.

There is a 16 hour duty day that your bud may or may not have busted. (121.505 (b) No pilot of an airplane that has a crew of two pilots may be on duty for more than 16 hours during any 24 consecutive hours.)

If the DH was a company scheduled event, then I would run/not walk to file a NASA ASR report discussing the issue. http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

A company scheduled DH does not count as block time, but does count as duty time. Which also means that it does not count as Rest time.

If he was released from duty, to a legal rest period, with a scheduled DH home the next day.....and he elected to just suck it up and go home.....then, he's okay......unless the stretch to a 16:30 duty day was avoidable

higney85

Sorry to say "your wrong" but "your wrong" being on reserve the past few months has taught me all this fun stuff- but you are listed as crew on a flight release even if you are sleeping in the back. The 16 hour rule still applies with deadheads. It is duty- you have a report and release time from a deadhhead duty. I had 15 hours of deadhead credit last month alone, meaning 30 hours in the back- I had 2 times where they had to release me into rest (go to hotel) and comeback 12 hours later for a deadhead. If I could have talked them into just letting me jumpseat that would be legal, but then they couldnt use me the next afternoon out of base... sneaky devils!

JetJock16

He was scheduled for the same day DH. The problem was that the DH FLT # was changed due to the longer day and before he boarded the FLT home he was already beyond 16 hours of duty. His chief said that he had to be on the FLT because it was legal and we need you back in ORD.

He had reserve duty the next day, I am sure his reserve duty in time changed but that should be irrelevant. He still departed on a scheduled (not elected) beyond the 16 hour period.

See my issue? Regardless, MESA SUX!!!!!!!!!

XtremeF150

A few things here guys. He didn't have to take the flight per our contract I don't care what his CP said. I should know I have been on RSV for quite a long time. I usually DH at least 30 hours a bid too (only paid half of that) and it sucks but DH is not flight time. This will affect when he can show the next day but I have never seen a reg that dealt with a limitation on DH. Yes it is duty but so are 91 flights and you can do those till you pass out. As far as being on the release that is YOUR company's decision and not required by the regs as you are NOT a required flight crewmember. I can tell you that many of our senior CA's that are Mesa supporters will DH well past the 16 hours to help the company. However this is NOT a violation. All of you guys just happen to work for reputable companies that don't try to push you past your contract.

Long story short, your friend is ok as long as he recieved his req. rest before his next RSV shift or flight assignment.

JetJock16

So duty Regs are only "looking forward," where as FLT time Regs are both "forward" and "backwards?" In that case, as long as he got his required rest going forward he's fine? Mesa SUX!

Airborne

If the pilot was released and chose to fly back into domicile then it was perfectly legal. IF he was not released then it was not legal because of the 16 hour duty day. Back when I was a crew scheduler for a 121 carrier the only time we could go over a 16 hour duty day was if it was the last leg of a sequence and it was operated part 91. even then the pilot contract stated the crew had to accept the flight.

16 hour duty day is a tricky reg. Lets say a crew was at 14:50 minute duty day and scheduled flight time was 1 hour. the crew would have to push and be wheels up by 15 hour duty other wise if they got delayed while taxing more than 10 minutes then technically they would have to go back to the gate.
It sucks that mesa chief pilot isn't protecting his own.
Also remember there are 121 supplemental- domestic-and flag duty regs- I am assuming here we are talking domestic regs.

XtremeF150

No I think the confusion is in Duty Day. There is no regulation about a duty day. You just can't accept a FLIGHT assignment unless you have had at least 8 hours min rest in the past 24 hours. If the duty day is extended DH or 91 flight, you can not return to duty for 121 flying until you have had a legal rest period. I do agree that Mesa sucks and mainly because they try to convince all the new hires to accept crappy assignment like this.