What do you guys think?
 

I know this has been covered before to some extent but my case is a little different and I would appreciate your input,

I'm 23, I have around 630 TT and 60 multi (270 Dual given). I graduated college when I was 20 with a 3.2 GPA, I have good job refrences (never been at a job less than three years), I have volunteer time, letters of recomendation from professors, I have never failed a check ride, I have good friends flying at almost every regional airline in the country that will write me letters of recommendation and walk my resume in.....

my problem is I have two negligent driving misdemeanors on my record. Neither time my license was suspended. When I got the two neg's I wasn't working as a pilot (at the time didn't think I wanted to be a pilot anymore). Before these two I had never even had a ticket! I have never had an accident.

Do I have any chance of getting hired? will my good qualities out weigh two bad incidents?

My record looks like a responsible person with a time period of stupidity; will stupid and young work as a defense or am I sank?

I appreciate your input. I want to get back in the industry but I'm worried I excluded myself already.

Well lets see, I barely got through college, busted a checkride or two...........:o Had a speeding ticket, or two.................almost had my driving license suspended due to a unpaid parking tickets, had several jobs that I quite after a week or two............................and I am two for two with my 121 interviews, your fine just be honest were human we all make mistakes, its not learning from them that will kill you................So I wouldnt get a third negligant driving ticket or whatever, what did you do by the way?


PS. Most imporant thing is that while you mature these types of things shouldnt happen...........most of the stuff I mentioned above happend a few years ago, I am a little more conservative now :)

maybe I should of clarified, neg driving in washington is alcohol related. So in other words I got charged for DUI's but because my BAC levels were .083 and .087 (about 1/4 beer over the limit in WA) and there was some scetchy police work they gave me neg's.

I don't even think that they go on the NDR (national driver registry) but I haven't checked that out yet; however it sounds like if it is below a reckless driving it isn't on it. If neg's aren't on the NDR would that be a big plus since that is what the airlines check?

and yes I know I'm an idiot so that doesn't need to be stated, I have already kicked myself enough for these. But I would warn everyone it only takes a couple beers to be over the limit. And they don't have to have a reason to pull you over, I was pulled over for a dirty license plate.

I dunno bro, two DUI's is tough can you even hold a Medical with two of them?


PS. Shouldnt stop you though.................Supply & Demand, the regional pilot pool is drying up very quickly sooooooooooooooooooooo Get your time & apps in. And......................Don't let anybody tell you,"you won't, can't get hired" thats BS, You'll be fine keep ya head up, and get a Fu*** Designated Driver.....

A friend of mine with 3 DUIs recently got hired with Pinnacle. In an interview, make sure to give the whole story, what you've learned from it, and why it won't happen again. If they see that the overall package is good, they'll probably take a chance on you. Especially during a pilot shortage like the industry is having right now.

its stil neg driving and not dui, so theylll never know alcohol was involved? when they do the driving record search will it show that it was alcohol related?

Good point, but sometimes HR people can be VERY savvy when it comes to that kind of thing.

EX; Where I live, it's very common to have a speeding ticket knocked down to defective vehicle. You pay a bigger fine and all that crap but at least it's not a moving violation on your record. How many cops ACTUALLY give out defective vehicle tickets? In other words, some KNOW what the ticket was orginally without needing to ask.

I'm not saying this is the case all the time, but be very careful if it comes up.

Since DUI is often reduced or plead down to negligent or reckless, anything worse than speeding will raise red flags...

1) They will ask you for details...are you going to lie?
2) They can probably reference the court records to check for themselves.


So yes, he will have to confront the issue, but I agree that he should be able to get a regional job. He may need to put a year or two behind him with no further tickets. If this happened when you were 18, you should be OK now if you handle it right.

If the infractions dont show on your drivers record as a DUI, you should be alright. Just make sure you are honest when you disclose the information.

I think your first move should be to obtain a copy of your driving record. See what it says and how it is worded. Every state formats their records differently.

There is a guy in my class with a DUI, he made sure that the airline was aware of this, and he still go the job

"its stil neg driving and not dui, so theylll never know alcohol was involved? when they do the driving record search will it show that it was alcohol related?"

In Washington State (I happen to live there), everybody knows that 1st degree neg driving is what you get when you plead down a DUI. I would think airline interviewers are savy enough to know that sort of thing.

Something like this can hold you back a while, cost you a job or two, but it's no reason to quit the career.

If it went in as a negligent driving offense instead of a dui then it's not an alcohol related offense. Remember the cops can arrest you for something, but getting a conviction on it is another matter. So the medical should not be a problem. As far as the airlines, I don't see any problems because he does not have a dui and his license did not even get suspended. He will just need to explain the driving offenses if they ask for them. If they hold it against you because they think it was dui then there is not much you can do. The important thing is that you avoided problems with the faa over the alcohol related issue.

I would call the NDR and see what shows up. Also you need to get your DAC report as well to see what was enter on that as well , because this what most employers use to obtain your driving. If these offense do show up you need to see if you can get this file sealed. You may have to hire a leagal rep to peform this task for you. If the file is sealed then on any job application you fill out is as it never happened. But you need to find out what they can find you see where I'M going

on the FAA page it says you don't even have to report a neg driving to them, and I think the medical just asks if you have ever had you license taken away because of alcohol offense (if I remember correctly)

I appreciate the response guys, I think I'm extremely lucky that it wasn't a DUI I got!

I just wanted to make shure that there is hope, I'm willing to put the time in. And I think (or hope) that they will see that besides those two incidents I have always been a very responsible person. Just a spike of extreme stupidity.

I think a negligent driving in the 1st degree is still an alcohol related offense but I think it is the only one that isn't a gross misdemeanor (like Reckless driving or a DUI)

thanks again!

It is a tough one. Be honest and upfront. The things that stick out to me is that your 23 and you have blown 2 time over .08. It has to be recent or you would get an MIP.
Not to be a jerk but after the first one why did you put yourself in a position to drive home when you must have been feeling marginal. You are going to be a pilot and alcohal is a bigger deal that if you are a retail salesman. (The salesman would most likely make more money that the pilot though.)
To check see your chances apply at BigSky, you will get your interview with your time and explain it to their chief pilot. See what he says.
It sounds like you feel bad about what happened just be upfront and tell them what happened and what you have learned from it. Take what I say with a grain of salt becasue I am 1/4 in interviews. Good luck.

Are you sure? Pinnacle flies to canada. Canada won't even let you cross their borders with a DUI. The only way to get around it is a waiver from the Canadian gov't, however it can't be that bad, considering the forms are on Pinnacle's web page.

It is that bad, I know a guy applying for it now. It takes a long time to go through, and is a pretty big headache.

Regarding the original question, apply to Piedmont, they are hurting so bad for people right now it's not even funny. Be honest about the whole thing and how you've learned from it, and if nothing else, you'll get good interview experience and practice explaining it!

Just got this email today about Peidmont. Here is a small excerpt:

"I heard one of the check airman talking about the (unofficial) minimums for
hire being lowered. I think he said 300 or 350 hours total time."

Edit (adding this):

The most recent captain hire date whatever thingy on APC lists it as being pre-9/11. That accurate? If so thats a mighty long upgrade time.

They came to UND talking about pre-hiring Juniors! Juniors! They want to hire based on grades and are lowering the mins to 300TT, no multi requirement. Crazy if you ask me. The way it is supposed to work those that get pre-hired most likely won't even have their multi rating when they are hired.

Not sure about the new mins, but I am sure they will be lowered. The class that started last week (this is all rumor mill stuff, of course) went like this: 24 invited, 15 accepted, 8 actually showed to class, 5 left within 2 days. They are down to 3 guys in class out of 24 they invited. Can't find bodies willing to come to class! If you can fly the dash 8 sim (if you're a good instrument pilot in a frasca you can fly that thing) and aren't cocky, you should get the job.

The upgrade doh is accurate, it is part of the reason for the mass exodus of FOs right now. There are hardly any FOs (less than 10) on the list hired between 2001 and 2004. If the place survives and upgrades proceed, the upgrade doh will move from end of 2001 to 2004 almost instantly, FWIW.

1) Your handle of "Cowboypilot" has a connotation of a renegade to me, but that is besides the point . . . For all I know you live in WY.

2) Neg. Driving. Problem I see with this is that you have (2). One is easily explained. The second? Sketchy.

3) Your age. (23) If you received these Neg. Driving tickets at 23 and are now 33 . . . with no infractions since, that to me is a more safe bet for a hire.

4) Airlines will find out even if not on the NDR. so tell the truth

5) You are in a good position now since airlines are hiring anything that remotely qualifies as a pilot. If I were you . . . Fly only multi-engine for your next 350 hours and then go and apply with 1000TT and 400 multi. Much will be overlooked I bet.

Wow! I thought I had low time when I was hirred at Scenic with 700TT.

The thing I'd look at is how long ago it was, combined with what you had to say about it now. I would bring it up in your interviews, and be just as upfront and contrite as you've been here. Not much else you can do aside from that.

I disqualify WAY more candidates for not disclosing crimes than for the crime itself. Having made mistakes in the past is one thing...lying about them on the application is another. We ALWAYS find out.

Good luck.

HR Chick,
Could you find out about a ticket recieved in another state if the ticket never showed up on the applicant's driving record for the state in which they are licensed?

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure. If it's not on the driving record, I can't see how...but I do remember getting pulled over once in Wisconsin, and the cop mentioning a ticket I'd gotten years before in Virginia...even though that was off of my record by then. So it's possible. And, now that I think about it, I got pulled over a year ago in Milwaukee and the cop asked me about when I lived in California...which was in 1992. I guess he could see that I'd had a California driver's license that far back. I don't think all databases are expunged in a timely matter.

I wouldn't risk it...I sometimes see situations where someone's disclosed something on the application, and it doesn't come up in the background check (usually something that happened when they were a juvenile). I always am impressed with their honesty...but I have no mercy when stuff isn't on the application and it turns up on the background check.

Considering you MUST report alcohol related motor vehicle violations to the Administrator, you better believe it will be on your pilot record.

You could be in hot water, but with the shortage- should be fine.