Which regional to get back on career track?
03-16-2018, 05:33 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Originally Posted by Baradium
Horizon has people upgrading before they are off IOE if they have the total time. One of them is on this forum.
To the OP: You know if you go back to EDV (if you left on good terms), you get your longevity back that you had when you left?
I would say a wholly owned personally. If you must go non wholly owned, SkyWest and Republic are the only options I'd say are viable. I'd put the AA and DAL wholly owned carriers above any of the United ones and with the forced upgrades to NYC I'd put Envoy at the bottom of that list.
To the OP: You know if you go back to EDV (if you left on good terms), you get your longevity back that you had when you left?
I would say a wholly owned personally. If you must go non wholly owned, SkyWest and Republic are the only options I'd say are viable. I'd put the AA and DAL wholly owned carriers above any of the United ones and with the forced upgrades to NYC I'd put Envoy at the bottom of that list.
If he wants to come back to Endeavor he might have to wait a while. We more or less have stopped hiring because we have so many applicants and people in the training department. Someone interviewing today wouldn’t get a class until mid-late summer. They’re also considering doing one class a month to keep up and get more captains through the training pipeline faster. A lot of people have been reporting on our threads lately about getting a thanks but no thanks email after submitting a application who are very qualified and even former 121 guys.
03-25-2018, 12:56 PM
#12
Pronounced Kep-Ten
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Left
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by Otterbox
So you left Endeavor after two weeks because you didn’t like the heritage of their crews? I’m not sure any mid 20s/30s HR professional screening your application is going to understand that... in recent history (since at least 16) Endeavor has been a highly regarded airline on the regional level.
The part I find about your path most intriguing is that XJT was a top regional back in the day and now Endeavor is the top regional for pay/QOL and Republic has a new contract that puts them on parity in two more years.
What I’d worry about with your resume is the appearance of a lack of follow through professionally.
The good news is that most of the regionals you listed are desperate for pilots and will give most anyone a shot at training and let the dice roll.
If you’re even remotely serious about a 121 career I’d probably tell you to stick with the AA Wholly Owned regionals unless you’re going to be content being a regional lifer elsewhere. Unless the pilot shortage gets pretty bad your historical lack of ability to stick it out in 121 jobs is probably going to make a major leery of you unless you have years of solid work history at your next regional... and even then it could be a crap shoot. You probably want to go someplace with a no interview flow through to a major as a backup. The AA Wholly Owneds are the only ones offering that. If you apply to all three, my guess is that one or two will offer you an interview.
The part I find about your path most intriguing is that XJT was a top regional back in the day and now Endeavor is the top regional for pay/QOL and Republic has a new contract that puts them on parity in two more years.
What I’d worry about with your resume is the appearance of a lack of follow through professionally.
The good news is that most of the regionals you listed are desperate for pilots and will give most anyone a shot at training and let the dice roll.
If you’re even remotely serious about a 121 career I’d probably tell you to stick with the AA Wholly Owned regionals unless you’re going to be content being a regional lifer elsewhere. Unless the pilot shortage gets pretty bad your historical lack of ability to stick it out in 121 jobs is probably going to make a major leery of you unless you have years of solid work history at your next regional... and even then it could be a crap shoot. You probably want to go someplace with a no interview flow through to a major as a backup. The AA Wholly Owneds are the only ones offering that. If you apply to all three, my guess is that one or two will offer you an interview.
All of us were contacted by the AssChief and told to remove the reviews or we would lose our positions. It was a matter of us safely getting to/from training that was the issue and they threatened us with our jobs when we voiced the opinion. I'd have to double check, but I heard the van driver was fired shortly after. Not from being reported as unsafe but for actually wrecking.
Also, I started flying 121/135 back when you could hired with 700hrs. The "great recession" had a lot to do with the low times after that as it took me several years to get back on our (my family's) feet. That was rougher than I'd ever wish on my worst enemies.
Anyways, 1100+/-hrs in 121/135. XJT and the 135 gig both ended in furloughs and were outside of my control. The latest two 121 gigs, I honestly should have done more research before attending their class dates. As my wife says about the nursing field, when they start offering sign on bonuses it is just a sign of how bad/poor/(insert something bad) about how the company/management are running the place.
While I am very serious about my career in 121, I am also very serious about which one I go to. Worst case scenario, I stay until retirement. I want to make sure it's a good place to be at for that long. Only get one life. I intend to make the best of it, regardless of how the cards may fall.
Other also, I really appreciate all the info and opinions on this. It is really helping along my research and decision. After reading some pretty disheartening things about ENV, I may actually take them off my list, even though they offer the best flow. That closed thread of Envoy Info where Dacuj threatened the pilot? Yeah, I'll keep looking in to them but that's pretty bad.
Thanks again, everyone.
03-26-2018, 09:28 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Originally Posted by CaptDave
One BIG issue I had with END, while in training, the van driver at the "other" hotel was flat out dangerous when driving the hotel van. Once, coming back from the training center, he took a 35mph clover off ramp at 60mph. Threw all the bags off the rack, knocked everyone over and almost rolled the van. Several of us voiced our concern to the hotel mgmt, Yelped a review about their driver, etc.
All of us were contacted by the AssChief and told to remove the reviews or we would lose our positions. It was a matter of us safely getting to/from training that was the issue and they threatened us with our jobs when we voiced the opinion. I'd have to double check, but I heard the van driver was fired shortly after. Not from being reported as unsafe but for actually wrecking.
All of us were contacted by the AssChief and told to remove the reviews or we would lose our positions. It was a matter of us safely getting to/from training that was the issue and they threatened us with our jobs when we voiced the opinion. I'd have to double check, but I heard the van driver was fired shortly after. Not from being reported as unsafe but for actually wrecking.
03-26-2018, 09:37 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by CaptDave
One BIG issue I had with END, while in training, the van driver at the "other" hotel was flat out dangerous when driving the hotel van.
03-26-2018, 10:18 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,898
Originally Posted by CaptDave
One BIG issue I had with END, while in training, the van driver at the "other" hotel was flat out dangerous when driving the hotel van. Once, coming back from the training center, he took a 35mph clover off ramp at 60mph. Threw all the bags off the rack, knocked everyone over and almost rolled the van. Several of us voiced our concern to the hotel mgmt, Yelped a review about their driver, etc.
All of us were contacted by the AssChief and told to remove the reviews or we would lose our positions. It was a matter of us safely getting to/from training that was the issue and they threatened us with our jobs when we voiced the opinion. I'd have to double check, but I heard the van driver was fired shortly after. Not from being reported as unsafe but for actually wrecking.
Also, I started flying 121/135 back when you could hired with 700hrs. The "great recession" had a lot to do with the low times after that as it took me several years to get back on our (my family's) feet. That was rougher than I'd ever wish on my worst enemies.
Anyways, 1100+/-hrs in 121/135. XJT and the 135 gig both ended in furloughs and were outside of my control. The latest two 121 gigs, I honestly should have done more research before attending their class dates. As my wife says about the nursing field, when they start offering sign on bonuses it is just a sign of how bad/poor/(insert something bad) about how the company/management are running the place.
While I am very serious about my career in 121, I am also very serious about which one I go to. Worst case scenario, I stay until retirement. I want to make sure it's a good place to be at for that long. Only get one life. I intend to make the best of it, regardless of how the cards may fall.
Other also, I really appreciate all the info and opinions on this. It is really helping along my research and decision. After reading some pretty disheartening things about ENV, I may actually take them off my list, even though they offer the best flow. That closed thread of Envoy Info where Dacuj threatened the pilot? Yeah, I'll keep looking in to them but that's pretty bad.
Thanks again, everyone.
All of us were contacted by the AssChief and told to remove the reviews or we would lose our positions. It was a matter of us safely getting to/from training that was the issue and they threatened us with our jobs when we voiced the opinion. I'd have to double check, but I heard the van driver was fired shortly after. Not from being reported as unsafe but for actually wrecking.
Also, I started flying 121/135 back when you could hired with 700hrs. The "great recession" had a lot to do with the low times after that as it took me several years to get back on our (my family's) feet. That was rougher than I'd ever wish on my worst enemies.
Anyways, 1100+/-hrs in 121/135. XJT and the 135 gig both ended in furloughs and were outside of my control. The latest two 121 gigs, I honestly should have done more research before attending their class dates. As my wife says about the nursing field, when they start offering sign on bonuses it is just a sign of how bad/poor/(insert something bad) about how the company/management are running the place.
While I am very serious about my career in 121, I am also very serious about which one I go to. Worst case scenario, I stay until retirement. I want to make sure it's a good place to be at for that long. Only get one life. I intend to make the best of it, regardless of how the cards may fall.
Other also, I really appreciate all the info and opinions on this. It is really helping along my research and decision. After reading some pretty disheartening things about ENV, I may actually take them off my list, even though they offer the best flow. That closed thread of Envoy Info where Dacuj threatened the pilot? Yeah, I'll keep looking in to them but that's pretty bad.
Thanks again, everyone.
For your own sake I hope you’ve got a better reason to say that you quit during your next interview than a bad van driver and the company counseling you for not using the proper procedures to give feedback about contract hotel vendors... if an interviewer hears that they probably won’t even want to ask what happened with RAH. They may just write you off as a fickle malcontent and add you to their do not hire list.
You seem pretty wired to quit at the first time of adversity or things not going the way you want them to. You’re right that Envy probably isn’t a good company for you because of that. I’m not sure any of the ones you listed are... maybe Skywest... maybe...
10-05-2018, 05:40 PM
#16
Pronounced Kep-Ten
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Left
Posts: 179
Truth be told, it’s taking me a long time to get over how I handled the RAH issue and the END issues. I’ve had a bad habit in my life of being a bit impulsive on the job stuff. Having a family that has income needs doesn’t help. Pretty much, if they call I’d interview and due to bills, mouths to feed, etc, I’d end up taking the next available class for fear of not hearing anything back from another carrier.
Believe me, if I could go back and do it all different, I would. It’s not for lack of trying, rather more of an analysis paralysis type thing where I have tendencies to overthink situations.
The END van driver situation was a pretty big issue, considering the number of people that rose voice about it. As much as I wanted to say something, I kept a low profile.
The reasoning for heading rob RAH was mostly domicile selection. One of their bases meant no commuting. I’d take that over any dollar valued sign on bonus. Period. Would’ve been great if I could’ve mustered up some grit and held through that first year.
I’m only human and make mistakes like everyone else but that doesn’t mean I’m ever going to quit going after what I want in life.
Thanks for all the info, everyone.
Believe me, if I could go back and do it all different, I would. It’s not for lack of trying, rather more of an analysis paralysis type thing where I have tendencies to overthink situations.
The END van driver situation was a pretty big issue, considering the number of people that rose voice about it. As much as I wanted to say something, I kept a low profile.
The reasoning for heading rob RAH was mostly domicile selection. One of their bases meant no commuting. I’d take that over any dollar valued sign on bonus. Period. Would’ve been great if I could’ve mustered up some grit and held through that first year.
I’m only human and make mistakes like everyone else but that doesn’t mean I’m ever going to quit going after what I want in life.
Thanks for all the info, everyone.
10-06-2018, 04:00 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by CaptDave
First post but been "creepin" APC since 2006.
Long story short, worked at a few regionals throughout the years but thanks to poor managment, bankruptcies, and furloughs, my flight times are still pretty low for my experience. Typed on the three RJ's, part 135 and 121 experience. I want to get back to the airlines. This time, though, I'd like to make an informed decision on where I go instead of picking the first company that offers me a job.
Which brings me to this:
Which regional should I consider as a good one? I know there really is no such thing as a good regional. Just looking for insight in to
1. Quality of Life/Work Rules
2. Benefits: how good are they where you work?
3. Potential flow: yes/no?
4. Upgrade: with prior 121 how long, realistically?
5. Domiciles: Prefer something in Central time zone.
6. Pay: What is the approx NET income for 1st-3rd yr FO's?
Been to END, RAH and XJT in the past.
Preferred options:
1. Envoy
2. Skywest
3. Horizon
and maybe options:
4. Compass
6. Commutair
7. PSA
8. Piedmont
9. Mesa (but everyone in aviation knows their reputation).
1800TT
500tMEL
Long story short, worked at a few regionals throughout the years but thanks to poor managment, bankruptcies, and furloughs, my flight times are still pretty low for my experience. Typed on the three RJ's, part 135 and 121 experience. I want to get back to the airlines. This time, though, I'd like to make an informed decision on where I go instead of picking the first company that offers me a job.
Which brings me to this:
Which regional should I consider as a good one? I know there really is no such thing as a good regional. Just looking for insight in to
1. Quality of Life/Work Rules
2. Benefits: how good are they where you work?
3. Potential flow: yes/no?
4. Upgrade: with prior 121 how long, realistically?
5. Domiciles: Prefer something in Central time zone.
6. Pay: What is the approx NET income for 1st-3rd yr FO's?
Been to END, RAH and XJT in the past.
Preferred options:
1. Envoy
2. Skywest
3. Horizon
and maybe options:
4. Compass
6. Commutair
7. PSA
8. Piedmont
9. Mesa (but everyone in aviation knows their reputation).
1800TT
500tMEL
You don't have to go regional, unless you want too. If you want to go into the big stuff, I seen post for Kalitta Charters 2, flying 727 cargo.
If you can fly a 727, any company will hire you. Give that a shot.
10-08-2018, 12:33 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
You do understand, you don’t choose an employer, they choose you, don’t you? That isn’t in jest. If you don’t want the job, don’t apply.
Sounds like you have decent flying record (no busts, violations or accidents) but, from a retired chief pilot’s view, a horrible work record. I’ve viewed hundreds of resumes, your’s would stand out for a lack of persistence and effort to make the career work. The furloughs are explainable, working somewhere for a few months and gaining nothing but a type without meaningful experience isn’t.
You need to show a record of success, even if it means suffering a little. That said, I took a “flyer” on a pilot without more than 18 months at one of seven jobs including a Fortune 25 bank. It worked out for both of us, I got a pilot for 7 years and a friend. He did create some needless commotion at times and I saw why he never lasted long, but he stuck it out and became a steady employee.
GF
Sounds like you have decent flying record (no busts, violations or accidents) but, from a retired chief pilot’s view, a horrible work record. I’ve viewed hundreds of resumes, your’s would stand out for a lack of persistence and effort to make the career work. The furloughs are explainable, working somewhere for a few months and gaining nothing but a type without meaningful experience isn’t.
You need to show a record of success, even if it means suffering a little. That said, I took a “flyer” on a pilot without more than 18 months at one of seven jobs including a Fortune 25 bank. It worked out for both of us, I got a pilot for 7 years and a friend. He did create some needless commotion at times and I saw why he never lasted long, but he stuck it out and became a steady employee.
GF
10-20-2018, 02:20 AM
#19
Pronounced Kep-Ten
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Left
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
You do understand, you don’t choose an employer, they choose you, don’t you? That isn’t in jest. If you don’t want the job, don’t apply.
Sounds like you have decent flying record (no busts, violations or accidents) but, from a retired chief pilot’s view, a horrible work record. I’ve viewed hundreds of resumes, your’s would stand out for a lack of persistence and effort to make the career work. The furloughs are explainable, working somewhere for a few months and gaining nothing but a type without meaningful experience isn’t.
You need to show a record of success, even if it means suffering a little. That said, I took a “flyer” on a pilot without more than 18 months at one of seven jobs including a Fortune 25 bank. It worked out for both of us, I got a pilot for 7 years and a friend. He did create some needless commotion at times and I saw why he never lasted long, but he stuck it out and became a steady employee.
GF
Sounds like you have decent flying record (no busts, violations or accidents) but, from a retired chief pilot’s view, a horrible work record. I’ve viewed hundreds of resumes, your’s would stand out for a lack of persistence and effort to make the career work. The furloughs are explainable, working somewhere for a few months and gaining nothing but a type without meaningful experience isn’t.
You need to show a record of success, even if it means suffering a little. That said, I took a “flyer” on a pilot without more than 18 months at one of seven jobs including a Fortune 25 bank. It worked out for both of us, I got a pilot for 7 years and a friend. He did create some needless commotion at times and I saw why he never lasted long, but he stuck it out and became a steady employee.
GF
My saving employment grace since getting in to aviation is running my own business for 8.5yrs.
Also, I completely understand that the employer chooses the employee. I’m just hoping that one of the employers that I’m more interested in is willing to take that chance on me. I’m tired of failing at my dreams. Not only am I letting myself down but also my wife and kids. Trying some due diligence on the companies this time around. Rather than a mass exodus of resumes and apps, I’m trying to focus on one at a time.
Sometimes the timing in life is off just a bit and you get stuck at all the red lights while everyone else gets the greens.
I’m far from perfect but I am persistent. I’ll keep reaching for my goals.
Last edited by CaptDave; 10-20-2018 at 02:42 AM.
10-21-2018, 09:36 AM
#20
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,501
This is a bizarre thread. I'd have to wonder how long the OP would ponder, delay, and equivocate the go-around decision at DH, if he wasn't ENTIRELY sure if he had the runway environment in sight?
Some people are better suited to occupations that are more clear-cut and aren't governed by the laws of physics and aerodynamics. Where you have time to safely indulge a penchant for analysis paralysis.
It's been eight months since this thread was started and you are still waffling.
I'm not sure aviation is the right career for you.
Some people are better suited to occupations that are more clear-cut and aren't governed by the laws of physics and aerodynamics. Where you have time to safely indulge a penchant for analysis paralysis.
It's been eight months since this thread was started and you are still waffling.
I'm not sure aviation is the right career for you.
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