Why so much hiring ?
 

I have been sitting here on the outside looking in . I was wondering why the regional airlines all of a sudden hiring again , like mad. It seems just like yesterday they were lay offs with no hopes of moving on to greener pastures. Question: Are they hiring because of expansion or attrition? If it is attrition where are people going? It just doesn’t seem like there are that many legacy carriers and like hiring at a rate compared to the late eighties. Also with all these new code share agreements changing partners it could be good for some and a nightmare for other pilot groups. When all said and done how do you think this will shake out?

One funny thing I saw last week was an advertisement in the employment section of the Boston Herald American Eagle put an ad in the general help section for Pilots. I guess we are blue collar workers in a white collar atmosphere

there was an ad in both the chicago sun-times and tribune as well. to answer your question in a nutshell: the regional jets are taking over mainline routes and need pilots for this.

One funny thing I saw last week was an advertisement in the employment section of the Boston Herald American Eagle put an ad in the general help section for Pilots. I guess we are blue collar workers in a white collar atmosphere [/quote]


I saw that too!! I thought that it was pretty funny, you just don't expect the airline pilot wanted ads in the paper, although I saw America West do it at least once a few years ago. Just like any other company though, if you need employees, you have to exhaust all resources...the paper is just one of those. I don't think that advertising in the paper is that ghetto, as numerous white collar jobs, especially those in the medical industry, advertise in the paper quite regularly; it just depends on how much need there is.

its both expansion and attrition. captains are leaving the regionals for ups, fedex, southwest, jetblue, middle east, asia, india, etc. on top of that regionals are still increasing their fleets and that creates the need for crews.

the slow hiring, slowdown in training since 9/11 and the ridiculous wages have kept the supply of pilots down up until now. now its time for a huge market correction...

Fortunately, the regionals are in a world of hurt. Last AIRINC job show in LAX had the regionals sitting with their hands folded waiting for pilots to show interest.

The amount of dollars the regionals are spending to hire and recruit for new business as well as replenishing pilots that are leaving, may not be the best use of funds.

I pose a question:

What if MESA offered $50/hr 1st year FO and $70/hr 1st year CA and climbing scale to a 5 yr. cap at $75/hr FO and $110/hr CA.?

1) Do you think pilots would apply to MESA?
2) Do you think many would stay at MESA for a career or at least stay longer than 5 years.
3) What do you think would happen to attrition at MESA with these types of salaries?
4) Do you think pilots at SKYW, RAH, XJET, PNCL, etc. would quit their jobs and go to MESA?

I don't see exactly who it is the regionals hope to attract with these ads.

1) The supply of CFIs is supposedly dwindling. They're already gone to some regional airline, count almost all of them out.

2) Quite a few former airline pilots who left the industry in harder times might think about going back. But why would this group rush to get hired at $16,000. Count all of them out.

3) A few trust-fund kids and hobby pilots (like myself) could supposedly see an ad and become interested. But we are not interested. We love to fly and we have the qualifications to accept a class date, it but the regionals do not pay anywhere near enough to tip the equation against whatever we presently do. Count most of us out.

Ok who did I miss? Who are they trying for?

Edit: Ellen I didn't mean to upstage your question... let the thread progress.

I think that are now throwing the proverbial Sh!t at the wall to see what sticks. They have tried everything and are still behind. One airlines' rejected candidate is now another airlines employee . . . . There is not much left.

Even ALLATPS is trying to find manager's for their offices for $30,000 a year. Wonder where their manager's went? I'll tell you. They all quit. They are getting blamed by ALLATP because there are not enough Flight Instructors to teach the students they have. These manager's are being blamed for the shortcomings that are caused by the airlines. The spiral is here.

MESA, Republic and SKYW want to hire 2,400 pilots next year. This does NOT include any other airline. YIKES where are they going to find these people??? They aren't.

It's probably a combination of low pay and not enough certified pilots. Right now it mostly has to do with low pay. There are pilots out there that just don't want to put up with the regionals, if you go to your local fbo or flight school, most CFIs want to work charter or corporate. However if things don't change we'll probably enter the 2nd phase of not having enough pilots even with good pay. The last 5 years or so, there was a big drop in certified pilots, I guess the world wide pilot shortage is catching up here in the U.S.

I have been out of the airline job market for 8 months now . I would like to get back in but 21,000 a year is just not going to do it for me. I have a lot of PIC Turboprop but that is all that I have. I have not flown in 8 months and don't have the money to rent a plane for IFR cuurrentcy. I am working on that but it will be a few months.

Interview Question How would you answer this ? You have been a captain for 8 years with 11,000 hour how is it going to be for you flying with a captain with say 3500 tt? what would you say ?

Very accurate. Nobody wants to be a CFI because 14,000 dollars per year is not going to do it for most people; the certificates to get to that point are too expensive. Things will get even worse with these GA user fees coming up in the future. The 21,000 per year that the regionals offer won't even attract the trust fund crowd because it would occupy too much of their time for too little money in return.

Has anyone told you guys and girls that you get a raise the second year and if you make CA, your pay nearly doubles. Not sure what job out of High School (no degree needed to fly for a regional) you could get where this happens?

On one end everyone thinks they should make $50,000 as a first year FO. On the other hand the sky is falling at the regionals and they are going to run out of pilots. Is anyone in the middle here?

Just about every skilled job out there and even more plus they get to be home all of the time, you probably haven't been to any college recruitment events have you? Regional FOs average around 30K for being gone half the year. CAs around 60K for the same amount of work assuming you fly a jet. These are starting wages at many companies for college grads and all they do is sit in a cubicle.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like to travel AND I hate cubicles!!! Ergo I chose to be a pilot. :D

If the major/legacies don't like the fact that they are losing the flying then they should not CONCEDE it.

Believe me, I don't like it either. Whatever 'regional' is, it should be capped at 50 seats or less. Or a certain distance or less. Or between airports of a certain size/capacity or less. I really do believe that. The flying I did for AWAC from ORD was real 'regional' flying as United Express. It was to/from smaller towns in the Midwest and the occasional longer flight like JAX or SAV.

All the pilots whine about how it is all going to contract carriers (so-called 'regional' airlines) but do nothing to stop it except raise the scope clauses and not come up with a better solution.

The pilots need to figure out a new paradigm that management/owners can work with. The managers/owners are smart, well-funded, highly educated and greedy individuals. If we want to compete with that we must do so by playing their games.

HMP is right, as much as I hate to admit it. But if we want to change it we must play by their rules, as they set the rules for the game.

hmmm, i have a hard time considering a four day "travel"...your crews, airplanes, and hotels must be better than mine. damn.

4-days blow...............................

Well said. We may see better negotiations in the near future. The top of the seniority list and the bottom at our mainline, can't seem to agree so they got what they got. It all starts with them not me. Many forget how our two Mgmt battles in as little as 5 years played out. We have a strong labor coalition. But in the final analysis who really won?
350 skilled pilots are gone. Times change and people come and go. We get good contracts and we get bad contracts. We loose the battle...but we'll win the war!!

good pay at the regionals will never be an option. they'll just keep lowering minimums (e.g. Mesa) to just a commercial ticket. and if that doesnt work, theyll take guys off the street and turn them into pilots. if they go that low, yes they'll easily find enough pilots. do any of us want this to happen? of course not, but whos going to stop them.

Ultimately there is a practical rock-bottom in this industry, and I think mesa has already reached or exceeded it.

If you recruit pilot wannabees off the street, you're accepting folks who haven't passed the traditional initiative test...Quality of service becomes a huge issue if you don't have effective people in key positions (which includes flight crews). And if QOS alone is not a problem, flight safety will quickly become one if pilots are recruited ab-initio through day-time TV commercials :rolleyes:

I think at this point we can focus our attention on how to improve the profession and not worry too much about it declining further. I think.

Good point. There are enough "professional negative posters" lurking in the background ready to throw in a cheap shot just to get argument going. :mad: