The River Visual Approach
 

The River Visual Approach at Washington Reagan National (DCA) is said to be a very interesting and somewhat difficult approach.

For those who fly it regularly or have flown it, what do you think about it?
Easy or Hard?
Almost had a landing gone bad?

I think the sharp turn at the end makes it a little difficult (I used to live in Arlington, Va..see planes land from my window:) )

I don't fly into DCA anymore but loved that approach when I did. I didn't think it was difficult as long as you manage altitude and airspeed correctly on the way in. Leave yourself high and fast and you're fooked.

DCA River Approach
 

Favoring the left side of the river will give you a little more turning room, and be prepared for traffic on intersecting runways crossing rwy 19 while you're on short final.

Its a relatively easy approach. You can use the Rosslyn LDA (109.9 147 inbound) and just follow the loc/glideslope down to about 1000' then just continue at that descent rate right to the runway. The amount of turning is minimal, and the only prohibited airspace is on the left side of the river. If they ask you to switch runways to 15 instead of 19 then its just straight in and even easier. It DOES get tricky when they ask you to circle for rwy 22. That can be tight in a jet, but its fun :) Just remember to stay over the water at all times for approach or missed appr and youll be fine.

"Cross Cabin John at or above 3,000, cleared the River Visual 19 approach, 170kts to a 5 mile final, contact Washington Tower 119.1, SEEYA"

River Visual is about the most fun you can have flying an airplane IMO, perhaps more fun than the Expressway Visual 31 at LGA because of the scenery. I normally set up the approach in the box with white needles Visual 19, 0.5nm final fix and set the inbound to that to be 148 degrees. Gives you a 3 degree snowflake glideslope down the river and will keep you clear of P-56A & B.

Its not a difficult approach to fly; all you have to do is cross the bridges on altitude, configure on schedule, don't screw up the turn at Rosslyn, don't fly any further left than the east bank of the Potomac, follow the VASIs, don't turn too late over the three bridges to final, follow the VASIs and you'll be fine. Did I mention don't allow yourself to be too high?

Never done a River Visual circle to 22 yet, and don't plan on it...

Flying like this is getting folks in Virgina along the river complaining about airplane noise (reference USA Today article earlier this week). Its the RIVER VISUAL, you should follow the river as charted to abide with the noise abatement procedures and everybody will be happy. Just like when you are cleared for the Mt. Vernon Visual 1/33 you aren't supposed to fly the LOC straight in, you are supposed to fly over the middle of the river for noise abatement.

Besides, its fun to turn the damn autopilot and FD off and actually fly the airplane...

EDIT - don't mean to sound holier than thou or preachy, its not my intent...I just think not following procedure is gonna make life for DCA crews much harder in the near future...

The river visual isn't that bad. it is actually a very fun approach to fly (look at the post above mine, flying the plane no fd, or auto). The one that always has me on edge a "little" bit is the lda approach. you pop out of the clouds and boom there is the river and you have to start making that left hand turn (there are buildings straight ahead and the runway is around the corner). Still a fun approach though!!

Or how about doing the ils to runway 1, and then at the faf they ask you to circle to 33!!! that is a blast too!!

If you follow the rosslyn down to 1000' that will take you to the point before the peninsula, at that point just fly left around the buildings and it sets you up on a nice final at about 500' for 19. I dont advocate flying the approach with autopilot on, but if you use the glideslope on the Rosslyn approach then it will keep you at all the recommended crossing altitudes for the bridges.

easy approach and really fun to fly. I also like the expressway visual as well. The one approach that can have you elbows and *******s in the flightdeck is the LDA 19 actually shot down to mins. Thats when there are hands going every where between the autopilot controls and calling out different stepdowns. Good Times!

Now that looks like a fun visual!

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0703/00443RIVER_VIS19.PDF

It's a standard addition to a typical end of training LOFT for us...and often ends in the 22 circle.

Not a hard approach at all...but can be a challenge for folks who are wedded to the instruments and FMS.

My response when asked about configuration points, etc is just 'be a pilot'. The whole point of the exercise is to teach visual skills and not be looking for instrument crutches.

Beats the hell out of "visual backed up by the ILS" any day of the week. Just stay over the river. And stay the frick away from P-56!!!

The Expressway Visual at LGA (when flown properly), I think is a tougher/more fun approach...

But the River Visual certainly allows for some of the best views on an approach! (I just wish that I didn't have to jump through a million administrative hoops to fly it, now that I'm out of the airlines...)

The Harbor Visual in Portland, ME (PWM) is also a fun visual.

Hassan,

I took an ATC Familiarization Flight to DCA when I was first hired with the FAA. After checking-in with the Captain and presenting my credentials, he introduced me to his co-pilot who was on his FIRST flight after completing whatever training you guys go through. The Captain then grinned and asked me if I'd ever "done the River Approach". Huh? He just smiled and said that I was in for a treat.

As we approached DCA, the Captain prepared the co-pilot for what was about to happen. He told me to enjoy the ride and to look for white knuckles from the right seat.

Needless to say, we all had a blast. I couldn't believe that we were that low flying through... a neighborhood... or a college campus? The Captain did an excellent job of coaching the rookie right-seater through all of the maneuvers that were required. And YES -- his knuckles were white!

I saw the runway ahead and to our right and thought that there was just no way that we were going to land. Banking right... turning... oh God.. wings level... touchdown and rollout! Three cheers from the cockpit!

It was really cool. I had the impression that the Captain enjoyed this particular approach; that the Captain enjoyed teaching the rookie pilot how to fly the approach; and that he was glad to see an ATCer in the cockpit to see what he saw each and every day "at work".

MEM_ATC

Just wondering why you think this?? You fly to the tanks/DIALS, follow a highway, and make a 180 around a ball park to a runway. Whats fun/tough?
The visual up the river at LGA is more fun IMHO than the expressway because of the views, especially when they have you at 2500 feet.

Personally, the river visual at DCA is a TON more fun, or the circle to 33. And everytime I've had to actually shoot that stupid LDA approach, the GS is always all over the place. That always makes it an interesting approach.

If you fly the Expressway vis as it's charted, you should be cranking and banking right down to about 400' AGL. Most people fly a longer "downwind" though before turning "base."

The best visual though is the "downwind visual" into DTW when you're cleared for the a short approach abeam the runway at 11000' via the GEMNI1 arrival.

Belts, boards, gear, flaps, and down you go!

I think LDA to 19 to mins is the toughest approach on the east coast. Last time we did that, we didn't break out and ended up going missed. The Restricted area over makes you nervous.

Did anyone here get to do the IGS at Kai Tak before it was shutdown? That approach looks like it would have been gangbusters to fly! I've got some old Jepps for that approach and haven't seen anything else like it in the world. I've only got a chance to fly it in the sim. Crashed into a bulding about 1/2 mile inside the stone cutters NDB. Then again into the checkerboard. Too fast on final. :-( I love reading about these fun approaches.

IGS into Lugano in Switzerland was a blast, especially if followed by a visual circle-to-land.

The River visual in DCA is not hard, but you cannot let things get out of hand. Configure early, don't fly too fast, go around Rosslyn at 1000 feet or so and you are golden.

It is fun, but challenging if the wind is strong from the west. Still, not hard and frankly, if someone can't do it then they are not really a pilot, because all it is is a series of turns while descending - basic back-to-the-basics flying.

The Harbor Visual in PWM is cool too, as mentioned.

IGS into Lugano, eh? I'll have to look that one up. I love these cray apporaches. Speaking of crazy approaches, have you ever seen the videos/pictures of the Tyrolean Dash-7's landing in Courchevel, France? ICAO: LFLJ That place is amazing!

Here's a vid of a PC12 taking off and landing at Courchevel:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TFzP9CRFdWw

The runway's 550m, or about 1800 feet.

OK that is freggin cool... Judging that approach must be a little dicey!!!

I can't watch the video from where I'm at but I can't wait to see it!! I remember reading an article by an ex-Tyrolean pilot who said that after you reach a 1/2 mile (or something like this) from the runway, there is no "go around" procedure because the Courchevel ski hill is right in front of you. Guys land there with gnarly tailwinds too. Check out some of these photos. The Tyrolean Dash7 I was reffering to is in there.

http://www.rfcdallas.com/photos/Cour...08_Landing.jpg

http://www.rfcdallas.com/photos/Courchevel/05.jpg

http://www.rfcdallas.com/photos/Cour...Take%20off.jpg

http://www.rfcdallas.com/photos/Cour...3_Approach.jpg

http://www.rfcdallas.com/photos/Courchevel/11.jpg

I have heard about this approach. One of the craziest in the world. The IGS in LSZG was actually nothing more than a LOC approach with very high mins and very steep. We had a G/S but it was for "reference only" and was 6.67 degrees. Looks like you're going straight down. I met a guy who used to fly Twin Otters in Nepal and there were some bizarre things there too to get tourists in and out of mountainous areas.

6.67 degree Glideslope, am I understanding this correctly?!?!?! LOL!! That's amazing! That's like doing a friggin emergency descent on the G/S! (being sarcastic). I would love to see the approach briefing for the IGS at LSZG. I remember something of a crazy NDB approach in Northern India or Nepal. I wish I could recall the details but it was a very steep descent.

The chief at our flight school has a Jepp binder of north Atlantic plates, mainly Greenland approaches from ferrying 172's to Finland. There are some really interesting ones into those places. Tracking inbound to and NDB, turning, then tracking inbound to another NDB, descending the whole time. Looks like a racetrack with two NDB's at opposite ends of the track.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe the GS angle for the ILS at Aspen in the 146 is close to 7 degrees? And that airplane seated 100 people.

There is no published ILS at Aspen.


The descent gradient for the LOC/DME approach is 6.59°, but that's a different animal.



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Deleted cause I'm retarded...

I would agree, comparing the LOC to an ILS wouldn't be the same.

EDIT-nevermind - that wouldn't make sense! Unless they had their own ILS equip. Not sure what I was thinking there. Must've been an RNAV? Or something.

But it wasn't part of the government chart revision, it was/is their own stuff.

It wouldn't have been an ILS approach since there is no Glideslope transmitter on the field.

Perhaps you could explain the difference between "published" and "publicly available."


[EDIT]

DISREGARD I see now you were editing while I was posting. ;)

[/EDIT]


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nevermind! :)

LSZG (LUG) in Switzerland was very steep. We were not allowed to fly in APPROACH mode, but it was done by one captain, who then disconnected and flew in NAV and VS as soon as established. It was not really completely approved, but completely safe if both pilots were aware.

We flew it in VS mode normally as a LOC approach as the vertical speed was really high (>2000 fpm,>15 degrees nose-down pitch). So high that they have now shut down the approach and replaced it with something less outrageous. The SAAB2000 (SB20) was approved only for 5.5 degree ILS approaches, which corresponds to the ILS in LCY (EGLC), London City, which is also steep but frankly, child's play compared to Lugano. This is why we had to do the IGS approach to LUG as a LOC approach.

Anyway, it is all moot.

KASE was also a very difficult and potentially dangerous approach (without proper training and procedures) and the BAe-146 approach is 'owned' by Air Wisconsin. I think that Skywest flies a different approach.

Some of these approaches sound slightly interesting. The river visual sounds like a normal approach down in the Carribean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D59S8sivLAQ

The river visual isn't hard at all. The point of stress is if you make any mistake to the left, you just 'retired'.