Which regional has the best commuting policy?
 

I hear Republic is a poor choice for picking a regional if you plan on commuting. I plan on commuting out of PVD.

I would say Endeavor.. POS space seat on your second try...

Where do you want to be based? Looking at passrider.com, you have no flights to LGA/JFK. So if you went to 9E, you are looking at ATL or DTW. EWR only has 3 flights a day. DCA however has 9 flights/day. (Note* 9/20 was the date I selected). If you could handle the 3-4 hour drive to NY that may be your best option. Or you could always commute to BOS and they have the hourly shuttle on AA or Delta to LGA weekdays.


I think Commutair also has positive space if you don't make your first flight, and I'm sure there are others. I'm at Republic and have 3-7 flights a day to base depending on the day and have never had an issue getting to work. While we don't have positive space, we do have a commuter clause if we cannot make it to work on time.


Good luck with your decision, look forward to having you in the 121 world.

Could you clarify Republic's commuter clause? I must have missed that part of it in everything I've read about them.

You have to list for two flights that get you to work on time. There’s no rule that says they have to get you there an hour or two before show, but you should probably apply some common sense. If you don’t make the second flight, you call scheduling and let them know. If they’re desperate for you to make it in, they’ll sometimes offer positive space, but it’s not in the contract.

You need to list for at least 2 flights that will get them to work on time. If through no fault of your own (ie-wx, delay, denied boarding, etc) you can call scheduling and there is no disciplinary action taken against you. You get 4 of these in a 12 month rolling period.

Thanks!! If I were to have to connect to make it to base, I'm assuming this would still be covered under the clause (however inadvisable)?

I wish they offered commuter hotels!

Not SkyWest that’s for sure. Just call in sick if you don’t think you’ll make it on time, if you try to be honest they’ll hose you while telling you it’s a priviledge to commute. Then they’ll do you a favor and let you go so you can go to a regional with actual protection and better pay... Call me jaded..

Commutair does not provide positive space normally. If they do it is on a case by case basis based on staffing needs. At Commutair you must list for 2 flights to be able to use the clause. Used it a few times with no problem.

Commutair does provide 4 hotel rooms per month, in base, on the front/back end of trips if necessary. Eliminates the need for a crash pad if you’re not on reserve.

Historically SKW has been very tolerant of reasonable commuting issues. But I'd be careful while on probation, at any airline.

While that was a series of very unfortunate events that happened to you, OO is very tolerant of commuter issues. While I'd like to see something more concrete in writing, I'd hardly call what we have terrible. You are the only person I've ever known to get fired for a commuting issue. Sucks I know, but seems like you're in a much better position because of it.

Thats one way to say OO has the worst commuter policy because there isnt one and you can be fired for not making a commute

Nobody has ever been fired for not making a commute (the guy in question was on probation and had poor reliability for other reasons).

Yeah his issue was more complicated than this particular post let's on. He definitely got a raw deal. Like I said, series of unfortunate events that led to his firing.

I agree with this, then again that was over 3 years ago, but never had any problem calling them up and telling them I wasn't going to make it. Always have myself 2 tries, never abused it. So sounds like this other guy probably had more going on then he let's on. Agree though that something needs to be written out.

Yeah you’re right, I am unreliable. I didn’r take my job seriously at all and am so thankful that SkyWest taught me that lesson.....

If two sick calls while on probation is showing a reliability issue, then the company you work for sucks and you need protection. If you miss your commute for the first time and management throws two previous sick calls in your face, then the company you work for sucks and you need protection. If every single pilot at the company you work for tells you that you should have just called in sick instead of calling in honest, then the company you work for sucks and you need protection. If your BCP tells you that you that back in his day one would have to be close to their death bed in order to call in sick then the company you work for sucks and you need some protection. I don’t care how long you were there or what you heard, the situation isn’t a reliability issue, it was an issue of management that can do anything to a pilot group because there is ZERO protection, simple as that. Without writing stating what the definition of an honest effort is, then it’s up to management to decide what is considered honest. And honestly, management got that one wrong and that is why I continue to bring this story up. I told the company on my way out that I would for the rest of my career make sure that people knew all the details of this story

Not trying to come across as a p**ck, just getting sick of people saying “there is more to the story, or he had other issues”. This is a small industry, last thing I will let happen is my name to be run through the ground because of SkyWest and I guess I do get more and more defensive as time goes on

He already explained what lead up to it in another thread. That's commendable because it may help others avoid the same pitfalls.

Man o man.. I done trying to explain what happened.. so here is the bullet points

-Hired Oct 2017, made it through training with no issues and well within the footprint.

-Commuted to ORD, LAX then SEA while living in PDX

-Had two sick calls while at SkyWest, one dated in Feb and the next was a week earlier in May, these were legit sick calls that I truly felt that flying a plane wasn’t the right and legal thing to do. How I gauge that is if I bend metal, will I have done explaining to do on my health at the time...

-Mid May, I gave my self not 1, not 2 but 4 options to get from PDX to SEA. See I drove when possible, but on a whopping 1800 a month take home gas money wasn’t abundant. All QX flights were hosed, the OO Delta flight I missed due to a listing issue that is well documented. A flight that had open seat BTW, a situation that management didn’t take into consideration at all. Then another SkyWest CRJ that was late.

-The missed flight was a CDO that I had been given 12 hour call out. I was called at 845am for an 845pm show. I had proof being at the airport by 430 trying to list on that first Delta flight. Doesn’t sound like an unreliability issue to me

-Originally fired, although I didn’t just roll over. I reached out to SAPA and other resources, then was allowed to resign.

Those are the big points... Full story is buried back in another SkyWest Page.

If you have zero protection then yes it’s terrible man. Just because everyone wants to take the last flight possible and if that doesn’t work they’ll just call in sick. Its not even my situation I’m trying to hammer into the discussion, it’s the lack of writing and knowing what constitutes a solid try from the company perspective. This can vary from base to base depending on whose your BCP, that isn’t solid protection... Do you partly agree with that??

I do, which is why I said I'd like to see something in writing. The problem is there are a huge group of pilots who live in places that would require coming in a day early if they need to have 2 flight options. I also understand their perspective as a commuter. My time at home is gold. Like I said before, what happened to you sucks, but it is also far from a normal scenario. You had 2 major things not working in your favor, MH being in the CS department as this went down, and your chief telling you to drive and you decided not to. At that point it became more than just missing a commute, it became not following the instructions of your chief. I completely understand your decisions, but the system we have works pretty damn well for the majority of our pilots.

That is true, and I can see why the guys living in BFE Arkansas commuting to ORD want to keep things the way they are.

As far as the driving issue, that is true BUT the reason I didn’t decide to drive after he instructed me to do so was because I took the train to work. That train ride was 45 mins to my residence where my truck was. Then there was about a 2 hour 45 minutes drive to the airport. If I would have left the second after hanging up with the CP I still would have been late for the CDO. Like I said before I could have rented a car and hauled up there, but money was an issue for me at the time like most new hire FO’s. At that point the decision was made and the rest is history.

This was my experience with such policies at other airlines, too many restrictions. Typical requirements (some or all)...

- 2-3 Flights
- At least one hour apart
- Last one arrives at least one hour prior to show
- Must show seats in back
- Must be on a partner carrier (so management can verify seats)

Be careful what you ask for. The other downside is if you do miss a commute you WILL be disciplined if you didn't comply with all of that. I preferred the current system, make a *reasonable* effort under the circumstances and call in honest.

The issue becomes “reasonable” is now determined by your local management. What if they’re having a bad day? I’m sure for senior guys that may have a positive working relationship established with their BCP’s it’s no biggie, but for the new guys who have never met their BCP that term “reasonable” can be varied based on the mood of the man/woman in charge

Again, thanks for sharing. Might help somebody else to better understand things.

Also worth noting: Managers (all airlines) have a VERY low tolerance for folks who miss a LCR callout. Commuter policies often explicitly exclude that.

Ours is two options, one getting you there two hours early and one 30 minutes early. No carrier restrictions or time between flights. I’d take that any day over something as vague as “reasonable”.

I don't know, I commute in after my rap starts, to be in position 30 minutes before the end of my 2 hour callout. I change my outgoing message while I'm in the air. If the flights running late I call and get the "ok, we'll track the flight to see when you get there, thanks for letting us know". Your policy would mean gong the night before. Reasonable seems to work pretty good.

Reasonable assumes an always benevolent overlord. Chief pilots and CEO’s change. Contract language doesn’t without approval.

Been the same deal for over 20 years. While it wouldn't bother me to have something in writing, what we have is working quite well and affording me more time with my family. I take that for as long as I can.

Educate yourself before judging it. Its the best we don’t have one. Why put a number to the time you can’t make it. The one you hear about are 10+ a year issues before disipline..

Regardless the best airline is the one you don’t have to commute too...

You refuted none of my post

Kind of hilarious watching SkyWest pilots try to defend their lack of language granting them REAL protection in case they missed their commute.

OK man. I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Like I said, it's been working for decades. REAL protection would cost me time away from my family. Your comments are so productive.

Isnt it usualy
COMMUTER CLAUSE
Pilots are protected from discipline for call in due to a bad commute provided

• they have 2 different flights to get to their domicile AND
• they were unable to make both flights OR both flights were heavily delayed*

*by heavily delayed it is defined that the flight would have arrived so late that a new crew would have been assigned to that original crew members flights


Crewmembers shall keep crew sked informed of their progress on their commute flights and their plan of action so that a crew swap can be coordinated if needed early on.

I'm curious how this works? Because you'd have to commute to abide by the policy rather than call in sick? The policy doesn't say that you can't go with only one flight... just that you don't have the protection of the policy if you do.

The problem is if you don't comply with the policy, and miss your commute, they will probably have to hold your feet to the fire. Under the current system common sense prevails (common sense includes managing your commute so you don't develop a track record of poor reliability)

Regional with the best commuter policy is Via Airlines.

You’re home based. Positive space tickets to/from your trips, and pilot keeps the air miles. No airport standby. Hotels or single occupancy room in Crew House provided every day away from home.

They’re a small regional airline though, not a large regional like most being discussed here.

It is funny or sad how obvious the problem is. Unions protect members against arbitrary and capricious discipline. No union = 'at will' employee. Mangement's will.

The airlines will never have any sympathy for commuters. Everyone else in every walk of life lives where they work. Asking for considerations because you won’t is out of the main stream.

The thing is in other professions, companies that hire you will let you know where your needed during an interview. If you don’t already live there, they will provide assistance in moving you to that location and if it is an expensive area they will negotiate a cost of living salary adjustment. I remember when my father got a job for a retail company, they had a realitor help us sell our house in location A, provided us with an apt in location B until we found a new house and provided us with professional moving services at no cost to my father. He was paid adequately for the area they required us to live. He wasn’t a pilot, he was a retail manager, no knock on him but not really a position that required thousands of dollars in a specialty training. No degree and about 5 years retail experience when he got that job.

Example two... A friend now flies for a regional based in Seattle, his wife was hired on at an airline the same year as a marketing manager. She was offered a higher salary due to location and assistance with moving from their previous location. Now I get that marketing is an important part of the airline staying competitive, but not necessarily a high risk job and no more important than the job of a pilot.

The reason for that is years of airlines having thousands of applicants on file, people that were just happy to have a job flying a plane no matter the location or pay. Yes commuting is a choice about 90% of the time. However, there are situations that regionals put new hires in that make living in base without living under a bridge impossible with the current pay scales, like new hires with family or any sort of debt from training that are based in LAX, SFO or NYC. Most other professions companies also pay for hotels and assist with food costs during training, yet Delta Air Lines still doesn’t cover hotel costs. Why?? The stack of resumes happily willing to pay for their hotel during training as they know in the long run it will be worth it. That is an example of many necessary evils in the industry. Pilots will sacrifice way too much in my opinion to chase the carrot

The last sentence I couldn’t agree with more.