Choosing a regional - QOL above all
 

I'm a former army helicopter guy doing a transition to fixed wing and considering my regional options (I'll have 700 hrs rotor + 250 airplane). We're in the SAV area (about 4 hours from ATL and CLT) and although my spouse's profession provides a very comfortable income, it also means that moving (e.g. to live in-base) is just not an option. We also have two young kids, which means that quality of life & scheduling is far and away my most important priority, followed somewhere by benefits, path to the majors, and take-home pay last. I realize that many advocate for choosing whatever seems like the quickest path to the majors (which makes sense), but I would trade that for having a better QOL and scheduling flexibility during our kids' formative years. Right now I'm looking at Piedmont for the low/no reserve time & likelihood of being able to hold CLT pretty quickly (looks like an easy commute although I have no idea what the loads are) or PSA for possibility of the SAP. I've also interviewed with Envoy, but it seems like it would be tough to make those bases commutable, and about half of the Republic bases would be at least a 2-leg commute from SAV. So for the highest QOL, most days off or commutable lines, what makes sense?

-Piedmont
-PSA
-Republic
-Envoy

Something else?

Republic, then PSA.
I wouldn’t even consider Envoy or Piedmont. QOL at Envoy and even worse Piedmont, doesn’t exist.

CAE base at ZW can’t be more than 2.5 hrs from SO Georgia. Most Junior base in both seats so you would move up fast. Upgrade at 1000 hrs 121 as of today. I’d say it’s middle of the road on most of your criteria. Not best, not the worse. Except insurance, that would be top.

Again I wouldn’t exclude it based on your criteria - may not be the best option but worth a look.

Thanks, ZW definitely worth a look. I guess SkyWest would make sense as well with the ATL base, but I had initially steered away from those regionals with a lot of west coast bases, figuring that if I didn't get the one I wanted near home I would be in for a looong commute, which is why I originally looked at PDT pretty hard.

Eh, while Envoy isn’t right for the OP, I wouldn’t say it is non existent. Living in base and not brand new allows for a pretty good qol. Again, not right for everyone but not the worst either depending on your situation.

Is there is absolutely any way to drive to a base that should be your first and only option. Forget about the other details on everything else. The commute by air will wreck your life.

Republic or PSA, whichever is the shorter drive long term.

PDT you can likely hold CLT the whole time, but anything more than 2-3 days in a row for 11 days off a month total is a fluke.

I second this. Commuting is bad, like real bad. The only ones that can honestly say it isn't bad are those that are single and without family. Everyone else is just telling you lies. Commuting WILL, without a doubt, take you away from your family. There is no other way around it. You will miss more time with them, you will not always make it home, you will be more tired, you will be more stressed.

You can always tell the three pilot types that have it the hardest physically and mentally. Long haul international, night cargo and commuters. Again, people will argue this isn't true, but it is.

Good luck and try and pick the one that will allow you to drive. Even if it is a 3-4 hour drive, it will always be better knowing you have a way to your family that is under your control.

A great option if he doesn’t care about knowing when he can go home from work.

Republic or Skywest, whichever one would be the easiest for you to get to. As for the Atlanta base, it is damn near the junior domicile in the Skywest system:

Pilot Jobs » SkyWest Airlines

Yes Skywest has a lot of bases out west which is precisely where most of their pilots WISH to be domiciled. If you will fill a domicile out east VOLUNTARILY you will earn the everlasting gratitude of someone who does NOT wish to be assigned there.
Granted, ATL isn’t LGA, but either are a hell of a long two jump commute for a guy from Fresno.

SAP is not a good reason to pick PSA IMHO.

Back in the day guys figured out how to work the system to have up to 15 days off while crediting 100+ (I've even heard stories of people crediting 150ish). That is a near impossibility these days(for 98% of the pilot group SAPing)

SAP is useful if you know a month in advance what days off you want and you want to babysit a computer for 24 hrs trying to make trades (not a necessity but... YMMV) as it takes hours upon hours for trades to process (it used to only take a while during the first couple of hours of trading)

I would think driving to CAE would be well worth the look. However there are several Republic bases that are one leg commutes from SAV. EWR, LGA, MIA, ORD, PHL, and MIA are all one leg commutes. Some are even on RPA metal.

I’d suggest Endeavor because the commuting policy is pretty great.


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This and the fact that Endeavor operates near all the New York to SAV flights for Delta with many overnights there on the 900. Extra flight attendant jumpseat. Alas, we aren’t hiring.

Why is QOL at envoy bad? Commuting to reserve? Isn't the lengthy reserve only for the 145 & CRJ?

As a Round 1 line holder when I was an FO at PSA I was easily able to get 16-18 days a month off. When I wanted to make extra money I would only have 14-15 days off. SAP is awesome and the reason why I came to PSA. I got tired of never having control of my schedule

If QOL is what your after then Republic is the answer.

I second this as well.

If you need specific days off then PSA’s SAP is a great tool. The difference though, at other places you can still get 16-18 days off a month and credit 10-20 more hours a month while doing so.

I don’t give a lot of positive feedback when it comes to PSA, but I would have to say the Piedmont guys and gals have it much worse than we do. I would advise you to read their threads if you’re thinking about going there. I’ve read even their most senior pilots are only getting 11 and 12 days off a month while only crediting around 75 hours.

I agree living in base is huge, but as I said earlier you can go to lots of other places and get 16-18 days off with more credit and higher pay rates on top of that. I don’t think I’d be ok with driving to work if it meant I had to be gone from home an extra week each and every month.

If you live in SAV you should consider Skywest. Atlanta base can be had just after IOE for the most part. They have a great program for guys like you with Rotor time. endeavour takes a long time to get to out of training. You don't want to two leg commute. I have heard going out of JAX is very very tough. Over 400 Delta pilots live in Atlanta. We have Delta guys that live in JAX drive to Gainesville to get to work. Best of luck

Sounds unlikely. Why would Delta pilots live in Atlanta?

This is true...

At one point this past summer there was a month where only one line captain in the entire system got a line that did not get adjusted down to 11 days off by the time the finals were out.

With the opening of CLT line credit for some lines has improved from 11 days off @ 75hrs a month slightly (seen 11 days off with mid 80s) but pay is so low that after taxes/deductions the difference in pay is negligible.

If you’re considering PDT be prepared that trips credit a modified minimum day average of 4hrs/day. There are no high credit trips to swap into to make more money like you read folks doing at other companies with schedule flexibility. Plan on 16hrs credit per 4 day, 11 days off and 75hrs credit total per month and you won’t be disappointed.

For select people who live in base, or were hired in 2015/16 and will be on property the advertised 5 years to flow, PDT is/was a decent choice. Flow at Piedmont did not increase this past year the way it did at Envoy and PSA is approximately 10 years for new hires... aka so long It’s recommended as a non factor in consideration.

For commuters, life at PDT is rough.

Coming from the military PDT will be a QOL improvement however:

Don’t come to PDT expecting a quick flow
Don’t come to PDT expecting any flexibility in lines/credit.
Don’t come to PDT expecting massive growth.
Don’t come to PDT expecting an aircraft that isn’t the erj145.
Don’t come to PDT expecting a pay increase just around the corner.

As long as expectations are mangaged and one can drive to work a person will have an easier time at PDT. I would not recommend PDT for commuters when so many other options out there offer schedule flexibility.

Can you expand on this? Talking about junior manning or having to call in for release? Is it still not better to have a 2 hr drive vs. hoping for a commutable trip with a flight home same day?

It looks like the Republic bases that are a one-leg commute are DCA and EWR — but with just a couple of flights a day from SAV which limits my options. The PSA SAP would be great for scheduling but that takes awhile to kick in, and might not even be around by the time I’d be eligible for it?

Republic looks good and they’re one leg commutes, but with just a couple of flights a day each — how decent is Republic’s scheduling that it would be reasonably commutable on either or both ends without having to burn days off just getting to the base?

Yes and Republic has good work rules—but would you take with the one leg commute over driving to CAE or ATL or CAE?

I appreciate all the insight and know these x vs y comparisons are annoying and impossible to answer fully, but the reality is that with no 121 experience and no obvious options (if I lived in a larger city and was a 20 minute drive from a base that wasn’t going anywhere), I need the perspectives to make an educated decision. Thanks.

What are these other airlines that have 16 days off? I really don’t even care about the additional credit, and would definitely commute if it was feasible to do so and have that amount of time at home.

I’m pretty sure besides Piedmont, at most airlines you’ll be able to get 16-18 days off once you’re off reserve. There may only be 1-2 others that you’ll be stuck with 11-12 days off.

It’s not everything, but why wouldn’t you care about the extra credit if you’re getting the same days off? If all else is equal why not go to the place that gets you 2k-3k more a month.

At Republic I’ve averaged 16 days off since I’ve held a line. Had as many as 19 days off, and as little as 14 (14 was my own fault, picked up a red flag trip for the $$$$ and burned a couple off days). I don’t typically pick stuff up though.

The higher your daily credit is, the more days off you can achieve. So you might not get the cushy 2 leg days with 18hr overnights, but I did 16-18 days off all last year and averaged 70hr block with 90+hr of credit. If you want those lower credit, easier days... there are plenty of those to be had.

If you are commuting to a hub base (DCA, LGA, EWR, etc...) it’s easier to same-day commute before and after trips. Outstation base trips are rarely commutable on both ends.


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16 days off commuting on one or both ends can easily shave 3-6 days off a month.

When you drive to work you can wake up in your own bed the first day of a trip and get lay down in your own bed on the last day of the trip and not worry about Wx/mx cancellations or getting bumped from a Jumpseat or having too low priority non rev to get a seat delaying when you can get home from work.

At PSA 16-18 days off will only give you 65-75 hours of credit. 80 if youre senior enough to get a good initial bid award. So even if PSA had the same pay rates as Republic youre looking at a $500-$1000 difference per month just on FO pay with the same amount of days off. Based off actual PSA pay youre looking at a $1300-$1700 less than Republic with the same amount of days off per month or $15,600-$20,400 per year. For Captain pay you could probably double that or multiply it by 150% at the absolute least.

This is always true no matter where you go. I’m not at Piedmont, but from what I’ve read most of their trips aren’t commutable on both ends either so if youre a commuter... theoretically youre probably only getting only 6-7 days off a month if you factor in your commuting days. All while only getting around 75 hours of credit each month even for the senior pilots.

Really what it boils down to is, the American wholly owneds offer the flow which is definitely of value, but youre realistically going to make $15k-$30k less per year as an FO and about $30k-$70k less as a Captain compared to non AA wholly owned airlines. A lot of people like to exaggerate on these threads, but I would challenge anyone who doesnt believe me to read the threads of the other airlines on this site and/or ask their buddies that are at these other carriers what they’re making and what their days off are on average each month.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...01ff4c7e86.jpg

I’d have to go back and look for the rest of them since they drop out of flica.... but that was last month for me. Didn’t include the extra credit for the holiday. The rest of the year was similar.


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Choosing a regional - QOL above all
 

Double post. Du’oh

Great looks like everyone at republic has it made, go ahead and tuck away those major apps. Dont need those!!

There’s something to be said for being at a place that offers you decent QOL if you get stuck for whatever reason. Unless you’re at an AA WO there’s no guarantee you’ll ever make the majors.

He’s not bragging. He’s proving my point.

Precisely. It’s not perfect by any means, I have my apps out just like I hope everyone else does. But the point is your time at a regional doesn’t have to suck.


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In the OPs case, he could 16-18 days off a month long term and drive to work to CLT with PSA thanks to the SAP. There may be periods of commuting as he’s junior in each seat but at least he’d know there’s light at the end of the tunnel.

All things being equal, would be my first choice in that position.