121 Checkride Failure. Options?
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 310
NOW, this was two weeks ago. I've applied to two regionals at this point and both denied my application. I have a ATP checkride failure and left my previous airline after three months of employment. To be frankly honest, I feel screwed and it seems like I have no viable options except for Mesa or GoJet... Anyone have any suggestions for how to push forward? Sadly, talking to the union, they said I'm not the only one who this has happened to with my particular airline. Also if you're curious what the aircraft was, it was a Q400... I'll let you figure out the airline.
Again, if anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears for suggestions and knowing my options.
Again, if anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears for suggestions and knowing my options.
Folks are right on the money when they tell you to get your house in order before attempting another program.
PSA used to take folks directly who failed training at another 121. Not sure if they still do. If you want to stay 121, Mesa, Gojet, Commutair, Trans States May all be worth applying to. However those may require a commute if you’re west coast.
Surf Air or a part 135 jet operator might operator might be a good place to go if you’re looking to stay left coast.
#12
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
Sounds like they didn't like you much at Horizon.
Mesa is a second chance airline, apply there.
"Now, the reason for this was because my captain/instructor told me to NOT put in a transition on the STAR due to the SID having many of the same waypoints."
I'm not sure what on earth is going on here? That to me sounds like a fundamental lack of understanding how SIDs and STARs and the FMS works. Maybe it was a legit fault after all?
Mesa is a second chance airline, apply there.
"Now, the reason for this was because my captain/instructor told me to NOT put in a transition on the STAR due to the SID having many of the same waypoints."
I'm not sure what on earth is going on here? That to me sounds like a fundamental lack of understanding how SIDs and STARs and the FMS works. Maybe it was a legit fault after all?
Hindsight is 20/20, I admit fault in not catching the mistake. I was gullible and thought the captain had my best interests. I briefed the SID/STAR twice and both times, he told me to do what I did. I remember thinking something was wrong when I did it, but I trusted the captain more than my own judgement. At the end of the day, it comes back to me, but that was my thought process with how that aspect played out. He also had me change approaches at the last minute too, which went against our FSM in what approaches we were to do. I was told at the end of the checkride, I chose correctly, him making we switch everything at the last minute, didn't help the situation...
#13
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
First I hope your wife has fully recovered from her illness. I know Its too late to suggest a postponement in training until your situation was on the uptick... so I won’t. Airlines, like many corporations, have an Employee Assitance Program. In some cases, not all but, supervisors and yes, even, HR, can provide assistance too.
FlyGuy1988, you never imparted your experience prior to joining [Horizon]. Did you have prior experience in complex aircraft high performance aircraft equipped with FMS’s... such as Garmin, Honeywell, or Collins? Is this your first multi crew position? You mentioned a failed ATP... was that before joining [Horizon], or was the failed check ride to be an original ATP and Type Rating?
Some, brand new to the industry, may have an unrealistic expectation that their airline will “get them through the program” because of the dire need of crewmembers. Some provide additional training for various reasons.... such as a genuine desire to see the new hire succeed. A lot of time and money invested in their new asset. And of course to avoid litigation.
All the best to you and your wife for getting your career back on track.
FlyGuy1988, you never imparted your experience prior to joining [Horizon]. Did you have prior experience in complex aircraft high performance aircraft equipped with FMS’s... such as Garmin, Honeywell, or Collins? Is this your first multi crew position? You mentioned a failed ATP... was that before joining [Horizon], or was the failed check ride to be an original ATP and Type Rating?
Some, brand new to the industry, may have an unrealistic expectation that their airline will “get them through the program” because of the dire need of crewmembers. Some provide additional training for various reasons.... such as a genuine desire to see the new hire succeed. A lot of time and money invested in their new asset. And of course to avoid litigation.
All the best to you and your wife for getting your career back on track.
Up until the end, I was fairly comfortable with the systems. It's a difficult system to learn, but I was comfortable. Mistakes I made were typical for a new hire in training. Now, I will admit my own mistakes when I make them, however, my instructors would literally tell me that they told my captain not to do anything or give me clearances that would force me to do something with the FMS that I'd never seen before (because it was never in any scripts). A few friends with the airline after I explained to them what happened told me, they didn't learn how to do what I did until they got to the actual aircraft...
#14
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
First, my sympathies for your wife, and best wishes.
Had you introduced the issue with your wife before the problems began, I suspect you'd have had a different outcome, at least insofar as some leniency on account of your hardship. That it was introduced only after problems occurred makes it seem to those listening more of an excuse. I realize it's not, but timing counts.
As for the remainder of your time, it's clear that multiple check airmen and the training review board(s) have a different perception of your progress than you do. It may be a good time to step back, address the personal challenges you're facing at home, and then retry when you are under less pressure. I think you'll have a very different outcome.
I think that with a simple explanation that you were under pressure because of family matters, tried to soldier through, but found it untenable, you'll be fine.
If you try to give a long explanation that comes across as an excuse (as you've just done), you're dead in the water.
Do you understand the difference?
Had you introduced the issue with your wife before the problems began, I suspect you'd have had a different outcome, at least insofar as some leniency on account of your hardship. That it was introduced only after problems occurred makes it seem to those listening more of an excuse. I realize it's not, but timing counts.
As for the remainder of your time, it's clear that multiple check airmen and the training review board(s) have a different perception of your progress than you do. It may be a good time to step back, address the personal challenges you're facing at home, and then retry when you are under less pressure. I think you'll have a very different outcome.
I think that with a simple explanation that you were under pressure because of family matters, tried to soldier through, but found it untenable, you'll be fine.
If you try to give a long explanation that comes across as an excuse (as you've just done), you're dead in the water.
Do you understand the difference?
#15
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
In hindsight, it was not a helpful tip of the captain to omit the transition on the STAR, but at the time, I deferred to the captain's experience. It didn't sound right doing it, but I didn't trust myself...
#16
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
Again, I admit my own faults in this scenario.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 174
If it comes across as "not my fault", that's not my intentions. I really was trying to explain the situation. There's more to what happened, but my original write-up of this was 11 pages long. If you're "bored" by the posting, you are fully capable of reading another thread. This was intended to explain my circumstances in as much detail as I can, because I've seen threads where commentators will ask for more detailed information.
Again, I admit my own faults in this scenario.
Again, I admit my own faults in this scenario.
Sorry you had a rough time. We had an mil guy who had some family issues and he did the same thing didn't make it though loe even though he was a sharp guy but he went to commute air and did fine. Good news is there is lots of jobs out there right now 135, corporate, 121 but family is most important.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,479
Hindsight is 20/20, I admit fault in not catching the mistake. I was gullible and thought the captain had my best interests. I briefed the SID/STAR twice and both times, he told me to do what I did. I remember thinking something was wrong when I did it, but I trusted the captain more than my own judgement. At the end of the day, it comes back to me, but that was my thought process with how that aspect played out. He also had me change approaches at the last minute too, which went against our FSM in what approaches we were to do. I was told at the end of the checkride, I chose correctly, him making we switch everything at the last minute, didn't help the situation...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post