Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)
-   -   The Slow Death of the Multi-Carrier Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/119829-slow-death-multi-carrier-regional.html)

Fixnem2Flyinem 02-08-2019 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by EFBprobs (Post 2760329)
I dont think mainline wants all WO. They want to have a race to the bottom for contract price.

That worked in the last decade or two, with the retirement rate in the future, whipsawing will be the last thing on money hugging managers minds. I’ll put a round of cold beers on WO’d being the only surviving regionals by 2028...

You may think I’m crazy by saying that, but the numbers don’t lie. By 2028, the number of retirements will be plus 10,000 than the number of regional pilots in the game today. By 2032 plus 20,000.

EFBprobs 02-08-2019 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by Fixnem2Flyinem (Post 2760340)
That worked in the last decade or two, with the retirement rate in the future, whipsawing will be the last thing on money hugging managers minds. I’ll put a round of cold beers on WO’d being the only surviving regionals by 2028...

You may think I’m crazy by saying that, but the numbers don’t lie. By 2028, the number of retirements will equal the number of regional pilots in the game today.

Dang if you can tell me what this industry will be like in 10 years I'll buy you the whole brewery. My guess all the way out at 10 years is that there will only be 2 legacies, and neither will have regionals. They'll all be in house. The smallest airplane in the fleet being the smaller c-series or equivalent.

Edit: I take that back, that's a dumb prediction they're still building RJ's

Fixnem2Flyinem 02-08-2019 09:00 PM


Originally Posted by EFBprobs (Post 2760341)
Dang if you can tell me what this industry will be like in 10 years I'll buy you the whole brewery. My guess all the way out at 10 years is that there will only be 2 legacies, and neither will have regionals. They'll all be in house. The smallest airplane in the fleet being the smaller c-series or equivalent

Ha that’s true, I can’t honestly say what will happen next month let alone by 2028. But, if I were a betting man...

Excargodog 02-08-2019 09:03 PM


Originally Posted by Fixnem2Flyinem (Post 2760340)

You may think I’m crazy by saying that, but the numbers don’t lie. By 2028, the number of retirements will equal the number of regional pilots in the game today.


By 2028, the US military will have retired or separated an additional 25,000 military pilots aged from 33 to 48. The airlines love these guys for a variety of reasons including relatively low medical costs since many have Tricare, a known long history where it would have been particularly difficult to conceal problems from their employer, and the simple fact that the average cost per flying year for someone you hire at age 40 is considerably less than that to hire a 25 rear old who would then wind up spending 28 years at the pay of a senior captain.

Don’t get me wrong, the retirement wave means better times are coming, but at the major level it’s still a buyers market, and those buyers are going to buy the cheapest pilots that can do the job.

EFBprobs 02-08-2019 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2760344)
By 2028, the US military will have retired or separated an additional 25,000 military pilots aged from 33 to 48. The airlines love these guys for a variety of reasons including relatively low medical costs since many have Tricare, a known long history where it would have been particularly difficult to conceal problems from their employer, and the simple fact that the average cost per flying year for someone you hire at age 40 is considerably less than that to hire a 25 rear old who would then wind up spending 28 years at the pay of a senior captain.

Don’t get me wrong, the retirement wave means better times are coming, but at the major level it’s still a buyers market, and those buyers are going to buy the cheapest pilots that can do the job.

Yea that's a pretty sad reality. The good news for us is that the military is beginning to hold onto their guys/gals better, but they can't possibly compete with private sector pay. There will always be military hires, but the percentages are moving in our favor when you look at new hire demographics at mainline.

Another thing to consider is airlines are growing, and large airplanes like the 747 and a380 are going out of style. Smaller airplanes doing longer and more frequent routes help

Fixnem2Flyinem 02-08-2019 09:13 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2760344)
By 2028, the US military will have retired or separated an additional 25,000 military pilots aged from 33 to 48. The airlines love these guys for a variety of reasons including relatively low medical costs since many have Tricare, a known long history where it would have been particularly difficult to conceal problems from their employer, and the simple fact that the average cost per flying year for someone you hire at age 40 is considerably less than that to hire a 25 rear old who would then wind up spending 28 years at the pay of a senior captain.

Don’t get me wrong, the retirement wave means better times are coming, but at the major level it’s still a buyers market, and those buyers are going to buy the cheapest pilots that can do the job.

Hey I said just a cold round of beers, not betting my first born on it... :)

stabapch 02-08-2019 09:48 PM


Originally Posted by Fixnem2Flyinem (Post 2760340)
That worked in the last decade or two, with the retirement rate in the future, whipsawing will be the last thing on money hugging managers minds. I’ll put a round of cold beers on WO’d being the only surviving regionals by 2028...

You may think I’m crazy by saying that, but the numbers don’t lie. By 2028, the number of retirements will be plus 10,000 than the number of regional pilots in the game today. By 2032 plus 20,000.

Anything can happen in 10 years. However, currently there are no trends in this industry that coincide with your statement. Everything is playing out the same way it has decades ago. Future retirements will not force all regionals to consolidate to WO’s.....

Fixnem2Flyinem 02-08-2019 10:08 PM


Originally Posted by stabapch (Post 2760358)
Anything can happen in 10 years. However, currently there are no trends in this industry that coincide with your statement. Everything is playing out the same way it has decades ago. Future retirements will not force all regionals to consolidate to WO’s.....

So in 2009, when regionals were paying 20k and Great Lakes had 100’s of resumes on file, how is that the same as now? Right now regionals are throwing bonuses at new hires causing their pay to be higher than captains at some places. Most are begging for pilots that can upgrade at almost street CA rates... A lot has changed since 2009 and a lot will change by 2028. I’m not saying it WILL happen, I’m just willing to bet that it will. We all know we’re just one recession or war away from stagnation, but it won’t be as bad as regionals having 12 year FO’s again. Therefore IF the economy stays out of hot water, yes regionals like GoJet, Compass, Republic and even SkyWest will be hurting by then. Again, just my opinion, or maybe a hopeful outlook as I despise the regional blood sucking model that has been created.

stabapch 02-09-2019 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by Fixnem2Flyinem (Post 2760366)
So in 2009, when regionals were paying 20k and Great Lakes had 100’s of resumes on file, how is that the same as now? Right now regionals are throwing bonuses at new hires causing their pay to be higher than captains at some places. Most are begging for pilots that can upgrade at almost street CA rates... A lot has changed since 2009 and a lot will change by 2028. I’m not saying it WILL happen, I’m just willing to bet that it will. We all know we’re just one recession or war away from stagnation, but it won’t be as bad as regionals having 12 year FO’s again. Therefore IF the economy stays out of hot water, yes regionals like GoJet, Compass, Republic and even SkyWest will be hurting by then. Again, just my opinion, or maybe a hopeful outlook as I despise the regional blood sucking model that has been created.

I think we can all agree we would like to see all flying come back in-house. But, if you “despise the regional blood sucking model,” a “hopeful outlook” would not be one that turns all regionals to WO’s. This would be the absolute worst case structure for pilots.

Reference [MENTION=2246]rickair7777[/MENTION]’s post.

word302 02-09-2019 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by Fixnem2Flyinem (Post 2760366)
So in 2009, when regionals were paying 20k and Great Lakes had 100’s of resumes on file, how is that the same as now? Right now regionals are throwing bonuses at new hires causing their pay to be higher than captains at some places. Most are begging for pilots that can upgrade at almost street CA rates... A lot has changed since 2009 and a lot will change by 2028. I’m not saying it WILL happen, I’m just willing to bet that it will. We all know we’re just one recession or war away from stagnation, but it won’t be as bad as regionals having 12 year FO’s again. Therefore IF the economy stays out of hot water, yes regionals like GoJet, Compass, Republic and even SkyWest will be hurting by then. Again, just my opinion, or maybe a hopeful outlook as I despise the regional blood sucking model that has been created.

Look man, I'm no Skywest fanboy and am looking to make an exit ASAP, but they have a brilliant management group. They will definitely be one of the last players in the game.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:01 PM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands