Airline Pilot Central Forums - Call me crazy but

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire (Post 153649)

I hate to break it to you, but you are the one seeing in tunnel vision.

Seniority. You are not a person, you are a number. When SkyWest switches to a merit based award system, then awarding upgrades / removing seatlocks randomly is perfectly acceptable. As long as SkyWest is on a seniority based system, awarding upgrades/removing seat-locks out of seniority is completely unacceptable.....under any circumstances.

Bases open and close all the time. If the person is not prepared to deal with the consequences of this, then they need to find a different job.

SkyWest pilots need a union, and soon.

He has been known to fire off his CFI "I no everything" mouth, it will rear it's ugly head one day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freightpuppy (Post 153592)

Skywest just closed the DEN Brasilia base and awarded DEN Brasilia capts CRJ capt spots even though they are inside their year seat lock. Meanwhile, if you are a capt on the Brasilia in another base, you are still seatlocked even though you are senior to the DEN guys. Call me crazy but isn't this bull crap? I mean, they should release the seatlocks in seniority order, don't y'all think?

Well..............."We don't need a Union"........................

pretty soon they will start upgrading on the buddy system,,, better start making friends.

This is not a merit based upgrade. This is the company saying, hey we know we just shut down the only EMB-120 base within 1000 miles, and we want it to have the least affect on your living conditions. That sounds like a company I want to work for!!

Let me give you two examples to tell you how selfish your example is.

#1. Pretend Skywest closed the DEN CRJ base. Pretend the nearest CRJ base was in California (1,000 miles away). Would you allow Skywest to release the seat locks for the CRJ captains in DEN to become EMB-120 captains in Denver??

#2. Take a company that has an aircraft lock, but not a seat lock (JetBlue I know is one). You have just upgraded from A320 FO to EMB-190 Captain. Two year aircraft lock. The company starts retiring their EMB-190's. They close your base, and your nearest option is a base 1,000 miles away. They are retirinng so many EMB-190's that all the captains are senior to you, and you have to be demoted to FO. Would you like the company to release your seat lock??? You sure as hell would.

You need to put yourself in their shoes. You are thinking about it all wrong. I would bet if you asked most the other (non-selfish) Skywest pilots, they would agree that what Skywest did was probably in the interest of their pilots.

But hey, if you think a strict 100% ALPA seniority system is the best, I hope you get on with a company like that. Then I hope they close your base, force you to move 1,000 miles across the country to an outstation base (FAT, MRY, SBA...) to benefit some other person. Put yourself in that situation.

I would like to hear from some other Skywest pilots on this issue?? Do you think what Skywest did was fair?
Personally, Skywest just got a big bump up on my list!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryane946 (Post 153597)

Screw everyone else. I care about me, me, me...
That is what I see from your statement.

The DEN EMB-120 guys had their base shut down. If your proposal (release seat locks in seniority order) happened, they would have to move to .... Fresno .... is that the closest EMB base to DEN?

Why in gods name do you think that you should be allowed to remove your seatlock (isn't it only a 1 year seat lock) so you can fly a shiny jet, while the poor guy who lives in Denver now has to move/commute to California (over 1,000 miles!!!).

It's not about me Sparky. I'm sorry you see that in the statement. It's called the seniority system. In addition, I was also asking the question because I was wondering what other airlines do. I know for a fact that my airline would have a bid out for everyone and if they didn't, the union and membership would go ape$hit, I can guarantee that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryane946 (Post 153743)

ROTFLMAO!

If Skywest "cared" about any pilot at Skywest, they would have given them more than a 1% raise (on the "shiny jet" only) and NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING for the Brasilia pilots in the last 6 years. You are too funny.

BTW, look to your left. I don't even work at Skywest but thanks for the long explaination. Once again, it's not about living conditions, what is nice to do, blah blah blah. It's about seniority but don't worry, one day you will get understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryane946 (Post 153743)

.

You need to put yourself in their shoes. You are thinking about it all wrong. I would bet if you asked most the other (non-selfish) Skywest pilots, they would agree that what Skywest did was probably in the interest of their pilots.

But hey, if you think a strict 100% ALPA seniority system is the best, I hope you get on with a company like that. Then I hope they close your base, force you to move 1,000 miles across the country to an outstation base (FAT, MRY, SBA...) to benefit some other person. Put yourself in that situation.

I would like to hear from some other Skywest pilots on this issue?? Do you think what Skywest did was fair?
Personally, Skywest just got a big bump up on my list!

youre joking right? seniority rules are in place avoid problems of preferential treatment. based on seniority, you know exactly where you stand, what you can hold, where you can be domiciled, etc. closing a base is sad yes, but it doesnt mean they should violate seniority over it. There are other ways to fairly compensate these guys, like decent move pay that would normally be part of a Collective Bargaining Agreement (if only SKW had one). And can skywest pilots who have been wronged do anything about it? No, they cant appeal, they cant grieve, they cant do anything about it. They can call on "SAPA" but as they say in the south, that and a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghilis101 (Post 153840)

They can call on "SAPA" but as they say in the south, that and a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee.

Yeah. No kidding. SAPA that had the NERVE to present the pathetic "pay package" (1% for shiny jet and 0% for Brasilia) to the pilots. I would be embarassed. Those guys deserve to have their a$$ beat. A union may not get them much more necessarily, but SAPA is a bunch of St. George lifer a$$ kissers.

The kiddies and kool-aid drinkers really need to read Fate is the Hunter and both Flying the Line books. The only thing that matters in this industry is your seniority number...and when seniority gets usurped that is a problem for everybody.

Skywest may be trying to do right by those DEN-based EMB pilots, and that is enviable...but not releasing the seat lock to all Bro pilots (especially those senior to those in DEN) provides a windfall to those pilots based solely on their domicile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryane946 (Post 153743)

Whether you like it or not, pilots are contract laborers and always will be. The problem with your airline is that you are laborers with no contract and therefore no representation. This is one company decision that you, as and individual, agree with. Not everyone agrees with you and the company's next operational decision may not please you.

A wiser idea would be to have a collective bargaining agreement that covers issues such as 'seat lock' and 'domicile closures.' That way your pilots as a group would determine what is fair and prudent and negotiate for that treatment.

I do not mean to be condescending, but you suckers really need to realize that you're not doing anything for yourselves or the rest of the industry by being 'shiny, happy people.' You work for a 'major' sized airline for crying out loud, start acting like it.

If Skywest is so great then you should be pushing for an industry leading contract to prove it and to provide other pilot groups a bench mark to shoot for in their negotiations. You, my friend, are the one who is selfish.