“1500 hour rule”
#81
Standby Reserve at LGA
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 171
I’m not sure anyone who is professionally trained in safety would seriously compare the two, but I could be wrong.
#82
That crash was due to catostraphic system failure and the aircraft split into pieces during flight and without possibility of recovery.
Some military pilots volunteer to fly 50-60 year old airframes that are maintained by 19-23 year olds who do one enlisted tour and then get out. I am not denigrating their service, but it is different and for a good reason. The Navy practices cutting edge safety but has different operational and economic constraints and priorities than a passenger airline.
Some military pilots volunteer to fly 50-60 year old airframes that are maintained by 19-23 year olds who do one enlisted tour and then get out. I am not denigrating their service, but it is different and for a good reason. The Navy practices cutting edge safety but has different operational and economic constraints and priorities than a passenger airline.
Last edited by aeroengineer; 02-18-2019 at 07:35 AM. Reason: clarity
#83
Roselawn wasn’t a tailplane stall.
The Colgan crash was 90% poor airmanship and the rest was fatigue and more poor airmanship. The captain should have been in another line of work.
The last time I was in a full rudder deflection while cross controlled near a stall I was doing aerobatics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33NUAy3eomg
The Colgan crash was 90% poor airmanship and the rest was fatigue and more poor airmanship. The captain should have been in another line of work.
The last time I was in a full rudder deflection while cross controlled near a stall I was doing aerobatics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33NUAy3eomg
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 832
The 1500 rule wasn't the only "fix" to come out of that crash. There was also Part 117 and a few other reforms. I think combined they have had an overall positive impact on the Regional industry. With the 1500 rule, when the Regionals started having trouble filling classes it forced them to start raising wages instead of lowering their hiring standards which they have done in the past, sometimes down to a wet commercial. The new Part 117 rules has done a lot to fight pilot fatigue. When I hear some of the stories about back in the day the more I appreciate these regulations.
Am I for getting rid of the 1500 rule? Absolutely not. I don't know if it does much for safety, but the extra experience can't hurt. But it has done wonders for pay in the Regional industry.
Am I for getting rid of the 1500 rule? Absolutely not. I don't know if it does much for safety, but the extra experience can't hurt. But it has done wonders for pay in the Regional industry.
You young, low time guys might think think you're God's gift to aviation at 1000 hours, but trust me, you're not. I would use the analogy of a rookie NFL QB versus a veteran QB. You were the sh*t hot QB/CFI in college, but when you step up to the big leagues/aircraft, you quickly see how much you don't know and get your a** handed to you quickly.
#85
This exactly.
You young, low time guys might think think you're God's gift to aviation at 1000 hours, but trust me, you're not. I would use the analogy of a rookie NFL QB versus a veteran QB. You were the sh*t hot QB/CFI in college, but when you step up to the big leagues/aircraft, you quickly see how much you don't know and get your a** handed to you quickly.
You young, low time guys might think think you're God's gift to aviation at 1000 hours, but trust me, you're not. I would use the analogy of a rookie NFL QB versus a veteran QB. You were the sh*t hot QB/CFI in college, but when you step up to the big leagues/aircraft, you quickly see how much you don't know and get your a** handed to you quickly.
Filler
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 832
Shut up and get your time to get hired and be damn happy you have the opportunity. When I graduated from college, the regionals required 2500 TT and 500 multi to get an interview to fly a Saab turboprop, and paid about $22,000 a year. They had FO's that qualified for food stamps.
I had to flight instruct for 2 years making nothing and then to Alaska to risk my life as a bush pilot for 15 months, then go back to instructing and flying charters and corporate before finally getting 2500 hours to get an FE job with a low rate cargo airline. Trust me, no older guys want to hear your sob stories.
This is like a millennial complaining to someone who grew up in the Depression about how hard they have it.
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 279
Exactly.
Shut up and get your time to get hired and be damn happy you have the opportunity. When I graduated from college, the regionals required 2500 TT and 500 multi to get an interview to fly a Saab turboprop, and paid about $22,000 a year. They had FO's that qualified for food stamps.
I had to flight instruct for 2 years making nothing and then to Alaska to risk my life as a bush pilot for 15 months, then go back to instructing and flying charters and corporate before finally getting 2500 hours to get an FE job with a low rate cargo airline. Trust me, no older guys want to hear your sob stories.
This is like a millennial complaining to someone who grew up in the Depression about how hard they have it.
Shut up and get your time to get hired and be damn happy you have the opportunity. When I graduated from college, the regionals required 2500 TT and 500 multi to get an interview to fly a Saab turboprop, and paid about $22,000 a year. They had FO's that qualified for food stamps.
I had to flight instruct for 2 years making nothing and then to Alaska to risk my life as a bush pilot for 15 months, then go back to instructing and flying charters and corporate before finally getting 2500 hours to get an FE job with a low rate cargo airline. Trust me, no older guys want to hear your sob stories.
This is like a millennial complaining to someone who grew up in the Depression about how hard they have it.
If the 1500 hour rule goes away, it will crush any of the momentum we have to keep pay rising at the appropriate levels.
Last edited by Fixnem2Flyinem; 03-02-2019 at 09:25 PM.
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 199
Absolutely 100% incorrect assessment; human factors were completely discounted. You may want to do some research on the investigation findings. Yanky 72 was an absolute mechanical failure and nothing, not a thing could have been done by that crew to save that aircraft, crew, or the combat warrior passengers on board.
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 832
What people don't get is that first 1500 hours in GA is a goldmine of experience...
- You're actually in charge.
- You get to lead/manage a crew (for most folks who do the CFI thing).
- You will experience some equipment failures (more significant than FADEC Channel 2a).
- You'll probably get nervous or even scared once or twice.
- You'll learn about complacency.
- You'll learn about competing economic and safety demands.
Zero-to-hero 121 FO's don't have any of that. Odds are very, very low that they'll have to make tough calls or get scared. They will get complacent as all hell, and won't get cured of that until they learn the hard way as a CA. They've had a babysitter for every or almost every hour they've flown.
- You're actually in charge.
- You get to lead/manage a crew (for most folks who do the CFI thing).
- You will experience some equipment failures (more significant than FADEC Channel 2a).
- You'll probably get nervous or even scared once or twice.
- You'll learn about complacency.
- You'll learn about competing economic and safety demands.
Zero-to-hero 121 FO's don't have any of that. Odds are very, very low that they'll have to make tough calls or get scared. They will get complacent as all hell, and won't get cured of that until they learn the hard way as a CA. They've had a babysitter for every or almost every hour they've flown.
End thread.
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 832
I’ll start this off by saying I am a fan of the 1500 hour rule. It wasn’t that hard to build 1300 hours after getting the ratings, a few years is all. However, if there wasn’t a glut of guys such as you willing to climb up the ladder while being pee’d on the whole time, then maybe the airlines wouldn’t have been such a race to the bottom for so long. The truth is people got smarter over the years, they didn’t want to put themselves in the financial gutter to fly a plane, and that is the reason pay is going back up. So point fingers at the new guys all you want but starting a career by bending over and saying “thank you, may I have another” isn’t necessarily a good thing either. It made you part of the problem, a problem that lasted way too long.
If the 1500 hour rule goes away, it will crush any of the momentum we have to keep pay rising at the appropriate levels.
If the 1500 hour rule goes away, it will crush any of the momentum we have to keep pay rising at the appropriate levels.
The only thing that's changed now is, it's not "a long, hard road". It's a couple of years of instructing.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post