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-   -   “1500 hour rule” (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/119976-1500-hour-rule.html)

stabapch 02-12-2019 06:29 PM

“1500 hour rule”
 
Now that we’re a little more than 5 years in since the “1500 hour rule” was enacted, I’m curious what other pilots opinions are on this regulation.

To Recap: This was enacted as a result of the Colgan Air 3407 crash. The one that revealed some of the truth of the regional airline industry to the public.

Was lack of experience, defined as logged flight-time, really the cause for this tragedy?

Soon after this new regulation took effect back in my CFI days, I was sitting down having lunch with an FAA ASI. I had to ask his opinion of it, expecting a canned answer. He nearly spit out his food, telling me this was the most useless legislation that won’t solve anything and essentially put into law to appease the families of the lost ones on the Colgan flight. I wasn’t expecting that response.

So what do you think... Did this really fix the problems of the regional industry?

Are the skies really that much safer now?

Do regionals still continue to get away with poor pilot treatment, regardless of union representation?

TheWeatherman 02-12-2019 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stabapch (Post 2762958)
Now that we’re a little more than 5 years in since the “1500 hour rule” was enacted, I’m curious what other pilots opinions are on this regulation.

To Recap: This was enacted as a result of the Colgan Air 3407 crash. The one that revealed some of the truth of the regional airline industry to the public.

Was lack of experience, defined as logged flight-time, really the cause for this tragedy?

Soon after this new regulation took effect back in my CFI days, I was sitting down having lunch with an FAA ASI. I had to ask his opinion of it, expecting a canned answer. He nearly spit out his food, telling me this was the most useless legislation that won’t solve anything and essentially put into law to appease the families of the lost ones on the Colgan flight. I wasn’t expecting that response.

So what do you think... Did this really fix the problems of the regional industry?

Are the skies really that much safer now?

Do regionals still continue to get away with poor pilot treatment, regardless of union representation?

The 1500 rule wasn't the only "fix" to come out of that crash. There was also Part 117 and a few other reforms. I think combined they have had an overall positive impact on the Regional industry. With the 1500 rule, when the Regionals started having trouble filling classes it forced them to start raising wages instead of lowering their hiring standards which they have done in the past, sometimes down to a wet commercial. The new Part 117 rules has done a lot to fight pilot fatigue. When I hear some of the stories about back in the day the more I appreciate these regulations.


Am I for getting rid of the 1500 rule? Absolutely not. I don't know if it does much for safety, but the extra experience can't hurt. But it has done wonders for pay in the Regional industry.

dera 02-12-2019 06:46 PM

The best thing about it was the increase in starting pay in the regionals and 117 rules. And PRIA, so you can't lie on your application as easily any more.

The pilots, both would get hired today(and CA would've already upgraded), and they probably had more relevant experience before their date of hire than a lot of CFI new hires today.

WhiskyWhisky 02-12-2019 07:19 PM

Guaranteed
 
Get rid of the 1500 hour rule, and you get < $20,000/year wages back again. Guaranteed.


https://i.imgflip.com/ts1wz.jpg

galaxy flyer 02-12-2019 07:23 PM

It’s also a 750 hour rule and a 1000 hour rule, or accurately, an ATP rule requiring airline pilots to possess an AIRLINE Tranport Pilot certificate.


GF

captande 02-12-2019 07:26 PM

I did a case report on that specific accident in college. It was crazy to look back and see the comments on threads chastising the FO for retracting the flaps when they had the tail stall. Today, that’s the proper recovery taught for that situation.

Regulatory wise I think the 117 rules are the best thing that came from it. “1500” hours though? My 1500 hours is different from yours. You could’ve been ready for the airlines at 500, whereas someone else won’t be ready until 2500. You can’t put a number on experiences in my opinion.

DarkSideMoon 02-12-2019 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captande (Post 2762996)
I did a case report on that specific accident in college. It was crazy to look back and see the comments on threads chastising the FO for retracting the flaps when they had the tail stall. Today, that’s the proper recovery taught for that situation.

Regulatory wise I think the 117 rules are the best thing that came from it. “1500” hours though? My 1500 hours is different from yours. You could’ve been ready for the airlines at 500, whereas someone else won’t be ready until 2500. You can’t put a number on experiences in my opinion.

You did a whole case study on that accident report and you don’t know that they had a normal stall and not a tail stall?

dera 02-12-2019 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captande (Post 2762996)
I did a case report on that specific accident in college. It was crazy to look back and see the comments on threads chastising the FO for retracting the flaps when they had the tail stall. Today, that’s the proper recovery taught for that situation.

da fuq? Sounds like a great report.

ChecklistMonkey 02-12-2019 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon (Post 2763002)
You did a whole case study on that accident report and you don’t know that they had a normal stall and not a tail stall?

Hahaha. Greatest comment ever. Great college, that one.

captive apple 02-12-2019 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captande (Post 2762996)
I did a case report on that specific accident in college. It was crazy to look back and see the comments on threads chastising the FO for retracting the flaps when they had the tail stall. Today, that’s the proper recovery taught for that situation

What grade did you get? They didn’t have a tailplane stall.

Dera, PRIA was around well before this.

1500 has been neutered by big money lobbyists. So the inspector was right.
Today the inexperience in the right seat is glaring. Most want to learn. Some really worry me.


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