Skywest ATC Warnings?????
04-28-2007, 04:50 AM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 88FO
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Ellen
Wrongful termination even happens in the US Government. Just ask the Supreme Court Justices that got fired.
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
I must have missed that one...I always thought Supreme Court Justice, once appointed, where there until death or resignation...
02-27-2018, 03:02 PM
#42
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by laxflier
Do NOT think that the ASAP reports are not locatable.... Yes, they do NOT show up on a PRIA, but when a Freedom of Info request goes in by an employer, it comes back as a "We cannot confirm or deny whether the applicant has anything" or some such lingo from the FAA... That DOES raise questions and flags on interviews... It happened. It was better to have brought the damned thing up prior to them finding it... Just a heads up...
Has this been anyone else's experience?
In talking with a few other pilots, I've never fully understood whether a non-sole source or sole source ASAP report and ASAP corrective action reflects in FOIA at all.
Some say nothing is released in FOIA.
Other's say there could be a "No Action" letter. Or in this case, some other sort of record.
Did a search on APC and found the quoted stuff.
What's the truth?
02-27-2018, 04:25 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by RodFarva
Has this been anyone else's experience?
In talking with a few other pilots, I've never fully understood whether a non-sole source or sole source ASAP report and ASAP corrective action reflects in FOIA at all.
Some say nothing is released in FOIA.
Other's say there could be a "No Action" letter. Or in this case, some other sort of record.
Did a search on APC and found the quoted stuff.
What's the truth?
In talking with a few other pilots, I've never fully understood whether a non-sole source or sole source ASAP report and ASAP corrective action reflects in FOIA at all.
Some say nothing is released in FOIA.
Other's say there could be a "No Action" letter. Or in this case, some other sort of record.
Did a search on APC and found the quoted stuff.
What's the truth?
02-27-2018, 06:17 PM
#44
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by teddy3412
anything pertaining to an asap report is not reportable by pria, foia, or privacy act.
That's something I had never even thought of. Is my quoted poster wrong, or has something changed, or not?
It's confusing.
02-27-2018, 08:52 PM
#45
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
Originally Posted by RodFarva
Has this been anyone else's experience?
In talking with a few other pilots, I've never fully understood whether a non-sole source or sole source ASAP report and ASAP corrective action reflects in FOIA at all.
Some say nothing is released in FOIA.
Other's say there could be a "No Action" letter. Or in this case, some other sort of record.
Did a search on APC and found the quoted stuff.
What's the truth?
In talking with a few other pilots, I've never fully understood whether a non-sole source or sole source ASAP report and ASAP corrective action reflects in FOIA at all.
Some say nothing is released in FOIA.
Other's say there could be a "No Action" letter. Or in this case, some other sort of record.
Did a search on APC and found the quoted stuff.
What's the truth?
H3LL No.
FOIA only applies to the government, not private parties. Any private-sector company would round-file any FOIA request they got.
Within the government some records are exempt from FOIA. I believe ASAP would be exempt, since it's supposed to be confidential. Besides ASAP is not run by the FAA, they are only a party to the ERC, so I don't think the FAA rep even keeps records which would be subject to a FOIA. Records are kept by the committee, and only the gatekeeper (company employee, not subject to FOIA) has the de-identified data.
If the FAA started an investigation which was subsequently resolved by the ASAP committee, that might possibly be subject to FOIA, but normally in the case of an airline, they ask the ASAP committee before they even start an investigation (don't want to waste time on something that ASAP is going to shut down anyway) so there would probably not even be an official investigation opened.
It's still possible if someone knew EXACTLY what they were looking for, they could FOIA specific records related to an investigation which never happened but that's really far-fetched. You'd need to know the who, what, when, where, and why. FOIA requests are rejected if they are too broad.
If in doubt, call your ASAP pilot rep, they know all this stuff.
02-28-2018, 04:39 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: Professional Eugoogoolizer at the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can’t Read Good
Posts: 1,191
This was painful to read through. I am amazed at how separate the sky west pilot group is from the rest of the industry.
My company the ASAP program is clearly written into our CBA. Further our ASAP program is a critical piece to the company SMS program required by the FAA. All ASAPS are reviewed by the ERC, event review committee. The event review committee consists of, union reps, company safety personnel, and FAA rep. The reports are redacted and the union becomes the gate keeper of the redacted information. ALPA legal is available in the event the information would need to be made public.
No report or finding can show up in a PRIA request. No report can show up on an FAA FOIA report. The only way would be for all three ERC commitee members to agree that you acted purposely in an unsafe matter and or pose an immediate risk to public safety. Company management is never apart of this.
The ERC committee determines root cause of all events, training, SOP, behavior, schedule, management, fatigue, etc. With the root cause and trend analysis changes are made. The events are monitored to see a reduction and successful elevation to the condition.
A NASA form is also submitted with the ASAP.
The ASAP have been extremely positive for my company. It has lead to SOP changes, end pilot pushing, enforce Part 117 fatigue rules, changes to our training, CQ training, programming of the FMS, ground crew procedures, maintenance procedures, ATC controllers, etc. Also it allows for an individual to receive guidance and training without the eye of flight ops management.
My company the ASAP program is clearly written into our CBA. Further our ASAP program is a critical piece to the company SMS program required by the FAA. All ASAPS are reviewed by the ERC, event review committee. The event review committee consists of, union reps, company safety personnel, and FAA rep. The reports are redacted and the union becomes the gate keeper of the redacted information. ALPA legal is available in the event the information would need to be made public.
No report or finding can show up in a PRIA request. No report can show up on an FAA FOIA report. The only way would be for all three ERC commitee members to agree that you acted purposely in an unsafe matter and or pose an immediate risk to public safety. Company management is never apart of this.
The ERC committee determines root cause of all events, training, SOP, behavior, schedule, management, fatigue, etc. With the root cause and trend analysis changes are made. The events are monitored to see a reduction and successful elevation to the condition.
A NASA form is also submitted with the ASAP.
The ASAP have been extremely positive for my company. It has lead to SOP changes, end pilot pushing, enforce Part 117 fatigue rules, changes to our training, CQ training, programming of the FMS, ground crew procedures, maintenance procedures, ATC controllers, etc. Also it allows for an individual to receive guidance and training without the eye of flight ops management.
02-28-2018, 05:08 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
I don’t think employers can just FOIA applicants, nor would they go through the time and expense without some specific reason.
https://www.foia.gov/faq.html#others
https://www.foia.gov/faq.html#others
02-28-2018, 06:06 AM
#48
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
Originally Posted by MKUltra
This was painful to read through. I am amazed at how separate the sky west pilot group is from the rest of the industry.
My company the ASAP program is clearly written into our CBA. Further our ASAP program is a critical piece to the company SMS program required by the FAA. All ASAPS are reviewed by the ERC, event review committee. The event review committee consists of, union reps, company safety personnel, and FAA rep. The reports are redacted and the union becomes the gate keeper of the redacted information. ALPA legal is available in the event the information would need to be made public.
No report or finding can show up in a PRIA request. No report can show up on an FAA FOIA report. The only way would be for all three ERC commitee members to agree that you acted purposely in an unsafe matter and or pose an immediate risk to public safety. Company management is never apart of this.
The ERC committee determines root cause of all events, training, SOP, behavior, schedule, management, fatigue, etc. With the root cause and trend analysis changes are made. The events are monitored to see a reduction and successful elevation to the condition.
A NASA form is also submitted with the ASAP.
The ASAP have been extremely positive for my company. It has lead to SOP changes, end pilot pushing, enforce Part 117 fatigue rules, changes to our training, CQ training, programming of the FMS, ground crew procedures, maintenance procedures, ATC controllers, etc. Also it allows for an individual to receive guidance and training without the eye of flight ops management.
My company the ASAP program is clearly written into our CBA. Further our ASAP program is a critical piece to the company SMS program required by the FAA. All ASAPS are reviewed by the ERC, event review committee. The event review committee consists of, union reps, company safety personnel, and FAA rep. The reports are redacted and the union becomes the gate keeper of the redacted information. ALPA legal is available in the event the information would need to be made public.
No report or finding can show up in a PRIA request. No report can show up on an FAA FOIA report. The only way would be for all three ERC commitee members to agree that you acted purposely in an unsafe matter and or pose an immediate risk to public safety. Company management is never apart of this.
The ERC committee determines root cause of all events, training, SOP, behavior, schedule, management, fatigue, etc. With the root cause and trend analysis changes are made. The events are monitored to see a reduction and successful elevation to the condition.
A NASA form is also submitted with the ASAP.
The ASAP have been extremely positive for my company. It has lead to SOP changes, end pilot pushing, enforce Part 117 fatigue rules, changes to our training, CQ training, programming of the FMS, ground crew procedures, maintenance procedures, ATC controllers, etc. Also it allows for an individual to receive guidance and training without the eye of flight ops management.
SKW ASAP is just like anybody else's ASAP. ASAP is an FAA defined program (part of SMS), not a union program, and FAA policy prescribes how it operates. Your local ASAP is not an FAA run program, but if you don't follow the FAA guidance, then the FAA won't participate, which makes the whole thing moot.
Last edited by rickair7777; 02-28-2018 at 06:21 AM.
02-28-2018, 06:11 AM
#49
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator
I don’t think employers can just FOIA applicants, nor would they go through the time and expense without some specific reason.
https://www.foia.gov/faq.html#others
https://www.foia.gov/faq.html#others
But some employers do routinely FOIA an applicant's entire FAA record, it's not any harder to do than PRIA, just mail in a form. So always assume anything in your record is fair game, unless it's medical info (HIPA/PII) or expunged.
Last edited by rickair7777; 02-28-2018 at 06:22 AM.
02-28-2018, 06:33 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: Professional Eugoogoolizer at the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can’t Read Good
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Nice union dig, but the original post, and most of the thread, is 11 years old!
SKW ASAP is just like anybody else's ASAP. ASAP is an FAA defined program (part of SMS), not a union program, and FAA policy prescribes how it operates. Your local ASAP is not an FAA run program, but if you don't follow the FAA guidance, then the FAA won't participate, which makes the whole thing moot.
SKW ASAP is just like anybody else's ASAP. ASAP is an FAA defined program (part of SMS), not a union program, and FAA policy prescribes how it operates. Your local ASAP is not an FAA run program, but if you don't follow the FAA guidance, then the FAA won't participate, which makes the whole thing moot.
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