How to remove R-ATP/PIC limitations via a DPE
 

I just removed the R-ATP and PIC limitations from my pilot certificate using a DPE. I couldn't find a good condensed source of information for how to do it, so I'm gonna document it here.

Yes, if your airline will do this for you for free, then go ahead and do that, of course. However, if your airline won't/can't outside upgrade and you need/want an unrestricted ATP now, then this worked.

Instructions are based on direction from the PWM FSDO. It's never a bad idea to check with your local FSDO first, because y'know the FAA. If you'll work with a DPE who hasn't done this before, then you'll probably have to lead them through the process. Be prepared.

I needed one paper 8710 for each limitation that I was removing. This was explicitly stated by the FSDO inspector. I removed two limitations, so I submitted two 8710s. Neither the DPE nor the FAA gave me a hard time about submitting two forms at once.

If you're removing a 61.167 (R-ATP) restriction, then bring your logbooks to prove your aeronautical experience. If you're removing a PIC-in-type limitation, then bring proof that you have twenty-five hours of supervised operating experience (SOE: flying, not monitoring). If you're removing both limitations, then bring it all, of course.

On the 8710, make sure:

• the certificate that you select is ATP.
• the request that you select is limitation removal.
• you specify the specific limitation on the form.
• Part II is blank.
• you complete Parts III and IV.
• the DPE certifies that they've reviewed your logbook and/or training record.
• The appropriate attachments are selected on the form and included. If you're submitting two forms, make sure that the correct paperwork is attached to each form.

The whole thing takes half an hour to an hour, depending on how fast and/or thorough your DPE is.

If your FSDO provides different instructions, then this thread would be a good place to document that. Just sayin'.

No, I can't lead you through the process personally. Please don't PM me about such stuff... just read the post above. Sorry.

Good luck!

This is GOLD!

What is a restricted atp? I thought working at a 121 carrier required a full atp

Required to be PIC, restricted allows you to serve as SIC.

Google FAR 14 CFR 61.160

Does passing the single engine ATP checkride automatically remove the limitation?

There are a multiple things now that allow someone to get a restricted ATP. Military, graduating from an approved flight school with 60 credits of aviation courses and a bachelors or approved school with 30 credits and an associates. May be more, but those are the ones I know off the top of my head.

For some of us older guys, it's also having the 1500 hours TT but not the 500 hours XC. The R-ATP requires at least 200 hours XC, so you still have to know how to fly from point A to point B.

No, it doesn't. You'd still have the restriction, but you wouldn't be limited to ASE commercial privileges.

The only way to remove the limitation is to meet the age and aeronautical experience requirements.

I was assuming I had to meet the age and experience requirements for ATP in order to take the practical test for a single engine ATP. The only reason I am getting an R-ATP is because I’m 100 hours short on cross country time. I figured when I get the 500 cross country and take the ATP single engine checkride that would show the FAA that I now have 500 hours cross country and they would remove the R from my ATP. So it sounds like on the day of my single-engine ATP I’ll have to have the examiner do what the OP did in the first post as well and get that restriction removed.

I guess I didn’t clarify. I’m starting at a Régional next month. After training I’ll have an R-ATP because I’m short on cross country time. Once I get to 500 hours of cross country I’ll be doing the single-engine ATP add on.

So you're starting at a French Canadian regional, eh? ;)

In that case, yeah, if you'll have the 500 hours, then I'm sure the DPE could remove the limitations at the same time.

Nope, but apparently autocorrect thinks I am. Lol

Anyway, that’s good to know. Thanks.

For the supervised operating experience, did you log PIC for only the time you were in the air or did you also use taxi time?

If it was my leg to fly, then we logged that leg as PF from out to in. That is how both LCAs with whom I flew logged my SOE time. I carried that method over to the next few captains with whom I flew.

San Antonio FSDO (through a DPE) will do all limitation removals on one 8710. Honestly more than one 8710 will confuse/frustrate Airmen Registry in OKC but again it’s up to every FSDO...

Out of curiosity, does the limitations need to be removed by paper 8710 or can it be done via IACRA?

Paper only. No options available to do it via IACRA.

That is what I was doing but started second guess myself. Thanks!!

ICAO PIC Limitation
 

Great info, thanks! My current ATP states, "Limitations: Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO” because I only have 95 night hours and substituted night hours for night landings in excess of 20 IAW 61.159 ("A person who has performed at least 20 night takeoffs and landings to a full stop may substitute each additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hour of night flight time to satisfy the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) of this section"). I'm getting ready to apply to the majors - will the above ICAO PIC limitation be an issue when trying to get hired?

Contact your closest FSDO and see if they can do it via zoom or come in. It’s free, I’ve did that awhile back. Just bring documents the show that you meet the minimums to have the restrictions removed. Whole process took 10-15 mins.

Did mine though my local FSDO. Just had to fill out an 8710 and did a facetime call. Took a few days with playing phone tag but easy process

I have a question regarding this and I hope someone can put me at ease. I recently started at a 121 carrier and finished my type ride last week. I was issued a type rating with no pic limitations. As I understand 61.64, my type rating should read (Subject to PIC limitations) as I don’t meet the requirements of that part (this is my first airline and my first twin jet type)
My buddy who is at another regional has the exact same situation as me. Admittedly, I should have noticed this as we were signing paperwork but I didn’t notice until now. What should I do?

My question is, will OKC kick back my permanent certificate? What should I do about this?

Funnily enough I dealt with a variant of this issue. My certificate was missing a restriction on it even though my temporary one had it and was correct. I just had to give the certification office a phone call and tell them my plastic cert is missing that restriction and the lady on the phone said she’ll reissue a new cert with the correct limitations and it’ll arrive in the mail. Super easy

The application can now be done in IACRA and is the preferred method (so I was told):

- Log in to IACRA and click "start a new application"
- For type of application select "Administrative Action" instead of Pilot
- Under Certifications (Step 2) it should say "Remove Limitation without a Practical Test"
- After that it is the same as any other application.

great thread! Do you HAVE to do this through your own FSDO? Mine put zero effort into it and said “contact a designee”
(good job)

I’ve run into this several times and have not had an applicant get denied. It seems that many APD’s overlook the 61.64 limitation. OKC should have kicked the application back the first time but they seem to overlook it as well.

Don’t worry about it.

I wouldn't worry, if they catch it they'll probably just issue an amended cert.

But obviously DO NOT actually use that cert as PIC lol

I used a local DPE. I figured it would be less of a hassle than dealing with the FSDO.

Regarding the PIC limitation on a type rating, can it be removed when doing the first recurrent? I think you would need X hours in type or X hours in a turbine?

My limitation is on a turboprop type rating.

It would depend if the person giving the check was an APD or just a regular Check Airman.