Envoy vs ExpressJet
 

I’ve been trying to decide between the two for awhile now. Any input is greatly appreciated.
My top priority is flying. Don’t care if it’s the 145 or 175 I just want to fly and upgrade ASAP but with that being said, I’d prefer to do it in a TX base. DFW for Envoy or IAH for XJT. It seems Reserve times are low in IAH for XJT (2-4 months?) and long in DFW for Envoy (9-12months?)? Pay is pay and I understand they should be somewhat similar.

Is that a fair assessment? Any advice is welcome.

For ExpressJet...Upgrade times are dropping fast, word has it we might be (if not already) looking for DEC’s because we’re starting to be short on Captains. The plan this upcoming year is to grow the 145 fleet as much as possible with Houston being the top priority. Training department is one of the best out there. Contract negotiations are in the works and hopefully we get one early in 2020. We’ve got the new Aviate Program but DO NOT think that is a one way ticket to United compared to Envoy’s flow with American.

1st question should be is AA your first choice of mainline carriers to work for? If so then your path will need to go through Envoy or one of the other AA WO regionals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Better pay at a Envoy, and guaranteed career progression.

Yes I’ve heard so so thinks about Aviate. Not using it as a flow like the AA wholly owned.
My mind isn’t 100% set that I have to go to American, any legacy I could get on would be great (I do have a 4 year degree).

By career progression are you talking about the flow? I’m hoping to get pick just by a major before the 7 year flow perspective. Of course that’s just the plan.

I have a 4 year degree as well. You will not beat upgrade times at Envoy due to our forced upgrade program at 950 company time. If you don’t care about fleet than we still offer the better of the two for the time being


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can’t speak for Envoy other than what I know is a fact that starting pay is higher than XJT and there’s actual career progression. I’ve liked it at XJT so far. There’s a lot of flying on the 145 and I have the ability to credit 90-100 a month with little effort and commuting. I did two months of reserve which I was used quite a bit with very little sitting around time.

As far as Aviate, the acceptance rates are low but that doesn’t mean that you won’t get in. You might be the person they’re looking for. Factoring our EQO which some refer to as a deferred payment, it’s not so bad. Our union and management are not on best terms, but my experience thus far has been good. There is room for improvement for us to be competitive but overall I came here to be able to fly and now hoping to upgrade in a little over a year.

I was making a similar decision several months ago, needing a TX base, wound up at XJT and I like everything I see here and I agree with PeakEGT's comments. You will fly as much as you want at XJT, even on reserve. Reserve will be very short (Nancy Bradshaw is a new FO at XJT with a youtube channel documenting some of here training and early experience at XJT - I think she spent 1 month on reserve at IAH in Oct/Nov timeframe).

Regarding pay, XJT has this goofy "EOQ" that is $2500 per quarter if you can average 70 hrs of flying per month. On the surface that sounds easy and it sounds like ~$10 per hour, making the XJT/Envoy pay rates similar. But...… if you are a military reservist or if the reserve situation changes at XJT, it might get a lot harder to log that 70 hrs per month. Then the whole EOQ goes away. And.....any extra flying you do, even at 150%, is based on $40.40 per hr, not ~$50 per hour. We hope this goes away whenever we get a new contract. For now, this is the deal.


Here's why I decided against Envoy. You should go on the Envoy forum and ask some of those folks for updates on these topics - this was my perception 6 months ago, but things can change constantly. You need to get the latest info from the people who are actually there. Consider these questions to be asked.....

1) there seems to be two Envoys - the 145 and the 175. Life on the 175 is great - short reserve, fly a lot. Life on the 145 not so much - LGA base, several months on reserve, flying 20-30 hrs per month while on reserve. Upgrades as you approach 1000 hrs pt 121.

2) the cadets get 1st choice of airplane in a class, the cadets make up over half the new hires and most classes are roughly 50/50 145/175. This means that if you are not a cadet, your chances of getting a 175 are nil. I know you said airplane doesn't matter, but it does matter when it determines where you will be based and how much you'll fly.

While we're on the subject, are you looking at Mesa and SkyWest for DFW/IAH bases? Mesa just got their 175 contracts extended in IAH. They operate 60 E175s for UA out of IAH. That's bigger than some regionals. Lots of people trash talk Mesa, but I have a few friends there are other than the pay, they seem happy. With chances for extra flying at 200% credit, the actual pay gap may not be so large. Again - questions to ask the Mesa folks on that forum.

The EQO is based on credit not flight time. So on reserve it's hard not to meet the credit requirements since you're going to get a 75 hour minimum credit for each month unless you somehow manage to drop some reserve days. I don't know how credit is affected by military reserve duty so I can't speak to that.

If you have to drop reserve days for military duty, you are docked 3.75 hours for each day. That brings me down to 67.5 hours credit each month, so no EQO for me. If you’re lucky, your reserve line will have days off during drill. You’ll keep your 75 hours credit, but only get 10 days off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve seen her videos but she doesn’t go quite as in depth as if like at time, probably because she can’t.
I hear a lot of the same from Evony now as what you’re saying. But a lot more question marks there too.
I didn’t look at Skywest (no bonus for non-military) and a little bit of Mesa but they just didn’t stand out to me.

If you want a DFW/IAH I think you’re looking at the right places. Perhaps interview at both?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Go to Envoy. Upgrade as soon as possible and enjoy constant movement up the seniority list from pilots flowing off the top. Apply wherever else you want to work and have a job at a legacy (American) in your back pocket if nothing else pans out.

Envoy will likely see some growth in the coming years as more flying is brought back “in house” to the AA wholly owned regionals away from contract regionals. The 20 Compass 175s aren’t going to stay there if that’s all they’re slated to fly for American. They’ll likely go to Envoy. And if Mesa and American agree to convert their CRJ900s to 65 seats (or not renew their flying at all) it would free up room in American’s scope to add 175s at Envoy. So growth is likely one way or the other.

Based on what you have stated your priorities to be, fast upgrade and lots of flying with a TX base, ExpressJet is the clear winner. The only arguments you will hear for Envoy are that your priorities are wrong. Maybe you will look back and agree, maybe you won’t. But having a 4 year degree and the confidence in yourself to get a job on your own are what brought me to ExpressJet l, and I did end up making it into Aviate. I can assure you if that works out for you like it did for me you will be a happy camper.

What a surprise.

I have offers from both, that’s the issue (good one to have).

I made it into Aviate too.. I’ll be a happy camper when I get a CJO , until then I wouldn’t be counting your chickens. Your posts are WAY overboard , one sided. I’m happy at Expressjet as well and I chose it over Envoy. I do think I made the right choice for me but one isn’t better than the other. They both have their pros and cons. Flow is a wonderful thing if it still works 5 years down the road. . XJT is a good place regardless of the whining you hear , MOST of it is just absolutely garbage and some of its true. XJT is a bad airline for commuters but great place to be if you wan to fly (just get the 145 ). Envoy to me didn’t sound good. Forced upgrades and base moves , from what I hear they chief pilots go out of their way to be bad and I personally don’t believe in American Airlines. I think they are tanking and they won’t hire at the same rate a few years from now even with retirements.

Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. Wherever you go , work hard , stay positive and have fun. Those 3 things will help land you a job. If you stop having fun and become miserable, you won’t even realize how bad you may look to a legacy or LCC when you interview.

Pay per hour might be higher at Envoy but you just said it yourself, you are able to credit 90-100 hrs at XJT with little effort. If you're based out of DFW in the 145 at Envoy and you commute, it will be VERY difficult to credit any higher than 75 hrs per month without going below 11 days off. Most lines are 72 hrs credit and 12-13 days off. OT is a waste of your time as most trips don't even leave the state of TX.
So you do the math.

Couldn’t you have given your 2 cents without trying to insult me? What was the point exactly?

My sincere apologies. I’ll edit. I didn’t mean to be insulting but I can see how that came across

Now, what if I threw Republic into the conversation? What would the rank go to? The same criteria apply.
Thanks!

You have to ask yourself a question. What do you rank as the most important thing in this job, is it; career progression, Money, fastest way to build hours, or Quality of life? Rank these things in order of importance for you and you alone, everyone ranks them differently. When you’ve done that make a choice as to which one best fulfills your top priority. If more then one does then move to the second item, etc. etc. When you ask someone what they think the best place is you are going to get their answer based on their own opinions as to what is best. Make your own choice, not someone else’s. In terms of building hours, more understaffed=more hours.

This. And once you make a decision commit knowing you’ve done your homework. Don’t look back.

Yes! Don’t be the guy to post here in on a second Or third asking about their options because they didn’t do their homework or just commit to to there initial choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk