Aircraft owned by regionals
 

Hello everyone,

The latest TSA aircraft reshuffle to XJT and SKW got me wondering : what regional airline truly own their metal ?
Does owning your aircraft offer better protection to its pilot group ? (one contract can still be cancelled by the major)
If you have a list, or know how to get to that information, please let me know

Thanks

The plural of “aircraft” is “aircraft”........

Skywest mostly owns their own planes. This is typically good for the pilots because even if a contract cancels, or expires without being extended, management has a big incentive to find a new home for the planes in question. Also means that Skywest won't typically sign a three-year contract, since they're paying for the planes they want more assurance of long-term employment so the contracts are typically 10, 15, 20 years (I don't think they even like to do 10). That translates into longer-term employment stability without having to sweat it every couple of years when you contract is back up on the auction block.

All that said, try to avoid staying at the regionals long enough for any of this to matter.

Amen.

Filler.

ZW owns their planes.

YX owns some of their own as well if I can recall. I think MESA owns some as well.


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SkyWest jan 1, 2020

Owned (debit financed) =222
Leased = 44
owned outright (no debt) = 173
Partner owned = 44
Total 483

future

51 aircraft coming 2020.
12 aircraft 2021....

This.
Also, owning the airplanes is no guarantee. ASA owned many of their airframes. Those are the ones at SkyWest now with AS and EV tail numbers. Oh, and the ND tail number.

I believe Mesa owns or holds the lease to all the CRJs and United owns 40ish of our Ejets and we own 18-20 and financing the next 20 Ejets coming May.

ASA was once a Delta WO at one time, until it was a sold to ExpressJet.

Actually, that's not quite how it worked out.
Delta sold ASA to SkyWest.
SkyWest then used ASA to purchase ExpressJet.

republic owns like 90% of their airplanes

It’s probably closer to 75-80%. All the AA birds are owned by YX. I believe all but 12 of the UA birds and then who knows with DL. At least 30 are/will not be owned (ex-CP frames).

So out of the 215ish aircraft YX will eventually have, I’d say ~50ish aren’t owned.

You can get hired at Delta at 21 and still get pancreatic cancer at 42 after your twins got run over by a bus and your wife left you for a girl half your age. Nothing is a guarantee

But you hope for the best yet plan for the worst.
Personally, if I was looking at regionals right now owning their own airplanes would be pretty far down on the list. Plenty of BR and CA tail numbers floating around still as well. Most of those were owned by their previous airline.

TSA and CP were pure staffing agencies. SKYW, MESA and XY own some / most of the metal and don’t transfer it around at will.

The ability to finance the regional equipment also gives those a leg up in future contracts. AA has plenty of debt and will be happy to have SKYW buy the equipment as they just did.

It can cut both ways. If a contract is cancelled you’re assuming airplanes can be shifted at will. It doesn’t work that way. You have to be able to bid on contracts and win them while staying within legacy scope. If you can’t shop those airplanes you still have to pay the leases on them. Or pull a Republic and file for chapter 11 to get out of them. Granted, in their case they couldn’t staff the -145’s. The regional graveyard is littered with companies that owned their own airplanes.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see AW next, but that place has been a dead man walking for a LOOONG time. Nothing against those pilots as they seem like a good group.

however it’s easier for a regional to place aircraft under their own name or score contracts if they front money for aircraft.

Those would be aircraft that mainline can operate under their branding without the financial liability of owning those aircraft.

vs

A regional that has to relay on a mainline carrier to front the money for aircraft for them to operate (See TSH going away) with Skywest scoring new flying with buying new aircraft (AA new deal).

You’re seeing this because this is currently the industry trend so you assume the last two years is how it will always be. It’s all you know. After seeing this industry for 30 years I’ve seen advantages to both and phases with both. I’ve seen those holding airplanes, such as ACA, not being able to shop them and going under after a short stint of trying to go as an independent.
Regionals don’t just print money to buy airplanes. They have to finance it. They have to find investors willing to purchase those airplanes and finance them. If people feel they can get a greater return on their $ than airplanes they will take the money elsewhere. The cost of operating then goes up. For smaller airlines such as regionals this may be too much to handle.
Legacies now are able to still play regionals off against each other. Look at the AAG WOs. They haven’t combined them and they probably won’t. They will play them off against each other and against the independents. They will never combine them and permit another Comair. Scope will limit the number of aircraft that can be put on line.
Eventually, we will probably get down to each legacy having one or more WO and probably 3 large independent regionals. They will continue to be played against each other. Some will see airplanes fielded, some will see them taken away. But it will be a shell game.

Finally, I would add that when you’re talking about an airline “owning” aircraft you are usually talking about an airline leasing aircraft. Check the registration. Many times you will find a bank or leasing company on the registration. I think K4 was the only company I’ve worked for that owned almost all their aircraft.

Yes! Thank you!

Now only if reporters would catch on.

Stop it with the that’s all I’ve seen for the last 2-years. You have no idea what I’ve seen and witness in regards to how this industry has evolved.

Yes I understand how mainline carriers play the regionals off of each other. This about how mainline carriers playing off one of each other. I do understand how and why fleets financed and why. I still stand by my statement that’s to the advantage of a regional carrier owning their own airplanes.

You bring up ACA. ACA was a case of United pulling the plug on their contract failing to reach cost savings then ACA foolishness to start a LCC with a high CASM fleet of CRJ-200s then immediately going toe to toe with United in their backyard...

I raise you with Skywest who themselves have successfully evolved as their customer needs has changed over the years. You can see how they went from being a turboprop airline to operating and owning fleets of CRJs and E175s.

Air Wisconsin was keyword “was” another carrier who have evolved until they reach a point where now the owners are trying to make every last cent off of clapped out CR2s but paid off CR2s. They lucked with a contract flying with United. A contract I don’t believe they would have gotten if they didn’t own their planes.

WOs don’t have this advantage as AAL owns the planes, but they have the financial backing of AAL. This leaves them WOs in a similar position as Comair if the WOs get too far out line. Hence is why we have separate carriers.

I do agree with your last point, I see this regional industry itself transition in phase where There will WOs of each major carrier plus a few of the larger independent carriers. Whichever independent carrier fails to evolve with their customers needs, look for them to head a down a similar path as Air Wisconsin years from now.

My point about 2 years is that seems to be the timeframe of everyone on this board. It’s been that way for two years... so that’s how it will always be.
ACA had no choice but to try it on their own. No place else to put their airframes after UAL fired them.
TSA. Used to own their airframes when they flew TWA Express. Not sure when all that changed but then they didn’t.
TSA management formed GoJet to get around the 70 seat pay issue. GoJet owns theirs... and came close to being shut down as they couldn’t farm out the -700’s as everyone was scopes out. Until someone figured out you could turn a -700 into a -550.
Comair owned their airplanes... they got purchased by Delta... and the strike... 9/11... they were gone.
ASA owned all their airframes. Purchased by Delta. Sold to SkyWest. ASA was a separate company and still owned the airframes... until an idiot MEC chairman gave them away.
Republic owns theirs and came close to shutting down a few years ago. Finagled a chapter 11 to get out of -145 leases and hasn’t looked back.
The industry changes. Owning the airframes can mean something... then it won’t. Or maybe it still will. Looking around now I wouldn’t make that a factor in my job search. I might pick a regional that owns their airframes but for reasons not associated with that fact.