Itsajob

A pay cut at a mainline airline is WAY better than giving up on scope. We’ve all seen that movie. It was awful. I think that the vast majority of legacy pilots would much rather take a pay cut than relax scope and outsource even more jobs. I’m looking at a 40% cut since flying on my fleet has been slashed due to the international restrictions, but scope relief isn’t even on the table.

Name User

It has nothing really to do with pilot costs, it more to do with "me too" type work groups. Example, FAs at mainline start at $35/hr and top out at $70/hr plus 10% 401k. At regionals it's around $18/hr top out $40 plus how many senior mama's are at regionals? It's a dead end job that few do more than a couple years. Same goes for dispatchers, pay is about half at the regional level than mainline...ground crew...$12/hr no benefits contracted to work regional flights but when mainline sends in "mainline" airplanes guess what scope clauses kick in and now that is a $35/hr mainline employee working the gate and ramp (don't believe me? Their contracts are all available online). Contract maintenance is cheap at outstations, here at AA we even have maintenance workers who are employed to fix jetways and facilities around our stations.

When you send an "RJ" in (ie outsourced flying) all of that goes away and you can play one contract work group off the other.

There is zero chance smaller airplanes will be flown by "mainline" pilots in the future. It's not even worth contemplating.

Burt123

It has EVERYTHING to do with pilot costs, which are included in the overall contract labor cost savings. “Me too” type work groups? You mean the ones that do IDENTICAL jobs physically/mentally and share 100 percent of the responsibility without the employment protections/benefits/compensation as their peers?

And AA does fly regional jets. What do you think an ‘ERJ’ 190 is? We can also add DL in that category now as well with their new little airplanes.

LoneStar32

daaayaaaam son! mic drop

WhiskeyDelta

I believe this to be nonsense. U/LCCs will be impacted on a similar level as demand continues to drops. Furthermore, the legacy drawdowns will be designed to be stood back up very quickly to protect those valuable markets. The main thing that matters is cash and which of these players have enough or at least good access to more as time goes on. I don’t see any one airline or group of airlines having an advantage right now in the short term. It will most likely truly be survival of the fittest.

Silver02ex

You're right, i don't think we (at Spirit) is going after the legacies market. We are barely holding on to our own market. However, it's easier for us to sell $20 tickets and not bet hurt as much, and people will still fly for a good deal. Those canceled events doesn't hurt us as much since we don't really cater to the business travelers. The biggest issue for us right now is, how long before Mickey's house opens back up, and when will cruise ships start to sail out of FLL again. At least Vegas is still dealing cards. I don't have the exact number but the amount of cash on hand compared to debt is much better at Spirit than most airlines.

sanicom3205

For what it's worth, Embraer refers to it as an E190. Same with the E170. Falls right in line with the Republic mainline mentality y'all have going here.

Besides, you're the LAST guy that should be in a conversation about scope. We'd be flying your shiny jets hub to hub if you had your way.

Name User

Pilots make more as seats increase.

FAs? Their cost is the same and doesn't matter if they are serving a pax on a CRJ or 777. Same with mechanics...that seat repair doesn't scale because the plane they are working on carries more pax. Same with rampers...a bag is a bag. Gate agents...yep you guessed it, that pax is the same regardless of aircraft size. If you could argue that a gate agent for mainline can board twice or three times as many pax than a contracted agent, you'd have a point...

The way our economy works, productivity drives income growth. You can't have sustainable income growth without productivity gains.

Airline unions have tried but all that results is additional outsourcing.

Itsajob

This recurring line gets old. Yes regional pilots do the same job as legacy pilots, but regional pilots saying stuff like this is like players of a farm team saying that they do IDENTICAL jobs as players for the Yankees, but with less pay and benefits. The difference is that one person plays for a farm team, and the other for a major league team. All of the players are highly skilled, however, each player negotiates with the team that he plays for and will obtain vastly different results accordingly. Regional pilots will never make what legacy pilots do, and legacy pilots should not forget where they came from, or look down on others who have not been as fortunate. People are scared to go to baseball games now and the stands will be empty for both teams until this is over. There are plenty of reductions to go around. Stay safe, healthy, and good luck.

LoneStar32

lol at comparing regional and major pilots to minor and major league baseball. Not even close.