Airborne

There is much truth to what Sky High talks about though.
The truth hurts some times.

directbears

Both of you need to give credit where credit is do to the skilled and experienced pilots that are still out there in the industry.

Sky,
Try selling that statement to the Eagle crew who brought that RJ back in one piece after they lost total control of their rudder which was jammed fully deflected to one side in less than ideal weather conditions or to the United crew who managed to keep enough control of their wounded DC-10 to make a "controlled" crash into Sioux City which saved lives rather than all perishing in some corn field.

robthree,
Mind dead, robotic, checklist only pilots are not the ones that get you out of a mess like the ones I mentioned above. If pilots don't have the skill set and experience to at lease attempt to deal with those types of scenarios then I feel they shouldn't be in the cockpit of an airliner. One paying pax or four hundred paying pax it doesn't matter. Not every emergency scenario is in some memory item or checklist. Not every scenario can be introduced in training. A pilot must draw on the skills that he/she has in order to have a chance of attaining a safe outcome in an unforeseen emergency scenario.

FighterHayabusa

That's funny. There's plenty of engineers working 60 hour weeks, some weekends, and living in fear of being obsoleted by an Indian or Chinese engineer who will work for 1/6th the salary. I bet there's more engineers who would rather be pilots than pilots who would rather be engineers. Truth is engineers AND pilots are suckers making big money for "the man".

Radar

Exactly what I was getting at, I was just trying to be nice...

Also, while regional pay is somewhat depressed I believe it to be better than working as a CFI for $8/hr with no health insurance to get five or six thousand hours. Such was the case before the regionals existed. My friend flying the whale for NW had 7500 hours before getting hired in the eighties; he said that was totally normal and competitive for those days. Can you imagine having to go from a warrior to the right seat of a DC9? I'll take the regional any day over five plus years of doing turns around a point.

Let's also remember that five years ago the hiring situation was similar at the regionals. For that matter even two years ago minimums were really high. Which all goes to say that the pilot shortage has been slowly making its way to where it is today. It has been slow and steady and is anything but a temporary shortage in staffing.

shamrok

Very well put. Technology cannot replace human skills required in unique situations that require practical, swift and sound judgement.

trunk junk

I think alot of a shortage of pilot talk is bs. Look at how many people the airlines wont hire. I know several people that have washed out of training and most regionals wont interview them and those that will havent hired them. Eagle told a friend of mine that they will never consider him for employment if he didnt complete a 121 program for any reason. from what i have seen most of the regionals seem to have blanket policies not hire any washouts. There has got to be hundreds of these guys out there and it doesnt mean they are bad pilots.

Besides that though it only takes a year or less to be trained for the airlines, requires no significant education and the money is pretty easy to get for training. Where i instruct we have had to turn students away there are so many. i have signed off 9 initial cfis in the last 2 months, so im bringing down any temporary shortage myself.

I think the guy that posted before got it right: money talks. The regionals paying less then starbucks indicates they are finding pleanty of suckers. Oh and if they arent finding quite enough, well that is like walmart complaining about a lack of illegal immigrants to take advantage of.

p.s sorry about the sucker comment

flynavyj

when i look @ it, i think we're seeing much more the tip of a shortage problem than an entire iceberg. Unlike starbucks, the regionals have many other avenues to use to attract more employees than other industries do.

Starbucks can't fill counter spots, what to do...give employees more time off, give employees more free coffee, give employee's friends more free coffee, raise pay.

Regionals can lower minimums, lower mins again, lower mins further, give signing bonuses, offer quick upgrades, improve quality of life (or promise it), get bigger shiner aircraft, or even raise pay.

We've seen plenty of the regional schemes in action already, who's offering signing bonuses, who's lowered their mins, It will probably only take more time for pay to increase.

Do I see the potential for regional pilots to be paid as well as major or even the fractionals, lccs etc? Not really, there will come a time when the compensation will begin to equal out the incoming supply and things would settle down. If pay/QOL are high enough, the regionals will have the staffing, and will only have to wait as long as it takes to get another 250hr commercial pilot online to fill the next void.

robthree

directbears,

My point exactly. It is unreasonable to expect a pilot with only a few hundred hours of total time to be able to perform to such a standard.

(Yes, there are exceptions. But we're talking about the majority, not the remarkable few.)

But the crews you cited had tens of thousands of hours - not tens of tens of hours. And we view thier actions as phenomonal achievments. No one would have been suprised had they failed to bring thier ships in as well as they did.


A pilot hired onto an airline with only a couple hundred hours stick and rudder time will almost certainly never accumulate more stick and rudder time. Hand flying an airliner is not encouraged. Nor should it be. Many, if not most, passengers would rather not be reminded that they are flying. The less an airplane looks and feels like an airplane, and the more it looks and feels like a large building, the happier most pax are.

So the flying prowess one brings to the airline, is likely to be one's peak. One's mastery of button pushing and knob twirling is likely to improve through constant repetition, as will one's ability to read USA Today and answer radio calls at the same time.



But with the bottom dropping out of the minimums requirements, it is clear that flying skills are not what recruiters are looking for. They are looking for warm meat to fill the right seat, and if that meat can pass training the first time through, its a bonus.

Thinking skills and experience are just too much to ask for at these prices.

robthree

How long were you at US Air?

Ziggy

Although I know companies that have very stringent policies on automation. I have flown with captains that had personal policies of "automation off at 10,000 ft". As with every situation there are different solutions. Automation has its place. We as pilots should not allow it to take our place, nor allow ourselves to loose our "stick and rudder" skills.


Ziggy