Logging sim time towards ATP
 

(6) Not more than 100 hours of the total aeronautical experiencerequirements of paragraph (a) of this section or § 61.160 may be obtained in a full flight simulator or flight training device provided the device represents an airplane and the aeronautical experience was accomplished as part of an approved training course in parts 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter.

Looking at 61.159 for the ATP it appears that you can count up to 100 hours in an approved sim towards your total time for ATP. So as an instructor in the sim giving the 141 instruction can we count this towards our total time as well?

In the sim you are providing dual only and not able to log sim time for any kind of currency or for any rating. Basically as an instructor the only benefit of logging may be that you can use the time towards being a DPE at some point. Keep in mind, one of the advisory circulars says the instructor should log the time as dual given when. Using FTDs.

Dual given only, nothing goes in total time. There are very few sims in the 141 world that are even approved. There even fewer airlines willing to accept those sims for experience credit to your total time. It’s not worth postponing your airline career because the company can’t be convince the time is legal.

Awesome think you. That was what my understanding was but we got in a debate about it.

Those guys are right on. About the only sim you'd be allowed to apply towards an ATP might be a few hours of level D sim during airline new-hire training. I'm aware of at least some regionals allowing you to start training with 1475 TT / 25 ME, since you get the last 25 in their sim before the checkride.

Dual given in an FTD or ATD is “ground instruction”.
If memory serves me right you don’t even need a CFI only a Ground Instructor certificate.
I could be wrong as it’s been a while.

* and I was wrong.
FAA council ruling:

https://files.redbirdflight.net/hubf...rpretation.pdf

We always used CFII's for any loggable FTD/ATD training. Looks the FAA made it official.

Most schools that I've seen own Frasca, Redbird, or FlyThisSim devices. All of which are certified for 141 use by the manufacturer. Individual schools can elect to make them into FTD level [X] if they want to go through that process. However what you'll usually find is the same letter of authorization hanging on the wall near a sim and it's the same exact letter that is found at another school.

Pay attention to some exceptions here, including the definition of approved course. You need 50 hours multiengine time for a multiengine ATP, only 25 of which may come from a simulator used in an approved course. 75 hours of instrument time, 25 max from any approved FTD and 50 max from 142 only. As others have mentioned the 'approved program' doesn't have to accept the hours so if you plan to push the absolute minimums pay a DE for your ATP so where ever you are applying doesn't have to scour your logbook.

​​​​​​My humble opinion is hiring will be subdued long enough you will have far more than the minimums before any job that requires an ATP will hire you but if you can slip through the cracks, more power to you.

Yes, and none of those devices meet the definition or requirements to log them as flight time for the aeronautical experience requirements for an ATP certificate.