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Should I leave?

Old 08-30-2020, 10:54 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Richmond454 View Post
I started looking around for other jobs back in May when things were really bad and didn’t know what my company was doing. I have a background in finance and did the finance thing before I got into aviation. My entire life I’ve always had backup plans. I try and not let myself get caught without a plan to pay the rent and put food on the table. My goal like most people when I started flying was making it to the majors. Pandemic has pretty much put a stop to a that for the next decade I’m guessing.

I would prefer to fly but making regional FO wages for the next 2-5 years doesn’t seem very appealing right now. I like the idea of taking leave for 12-24 months. I’ll see if my company is offering it.

I know the legacies probably won’t hire for a long time. But what does everyone see about the LCC, fractional, corporate?
Depending on which company you’re at, taking a voluntary furlough may be an option for you, in addition to the LOA routes.
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Old 08-30-2020, 03:07 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by senecacaptain View Post
take a leave of absence and explore the outside world.

years ago, a very close buddy did this and started his own IT company. Not designed as such but it ended up exploding. 10 years later he is a multi-millionaire and has 50 people report to him.

his regional airline asked him to come back.

he did not

he flies the "company" Embraer 300 now

God Bless America

Loved reading this!

Ditto! God bless America!
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Old 08-31-2020, 07:58 AM
  #23  
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If you leave aviation, you are likely leaving any chance of ever making it to an LCC/Major and most certainly a Legacy.
If it will take 5-ish years for the industry to leave, and you leave your slot at the regionals, you will have put yourself back 10 years at a minimum. And with corporate aviation not hurting for pilots, without recent time in a jet, you won't be a top candidate. Exploring a leave of absence isn't a bad idea, but that might not be available to you in the length of time you might desire (contract dependent).
Only you know if you will be fine leaving professional flying completely behind you, don't delude yourself into thinking coming back will be easy if that's where your head at. The landscape will not be the same as the pilot shortage has evaporated and won't see a comeback for a while.
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Old 08-31-2020, 08:54 AM
  #24  
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I respectfully disagree with Flyhayes, although there is some truth to what he says.

I survived two furloughs at my current company. The one in 2009-2011 was especially brutal. Furloughed or not furloughed, there was plenty of pain to go around. Our management took advantage of the situation to push for concessions and violated many of our contract provisions regarding hotel standards and scheduling. In 2008, I was very close to getting an upgrade class. By the end of 2009 I was hanging off the bottom of the FO seniority list by my fingernails.

In my opinion, the guys who sat out the 2009-2011 time period didn't miss much in terms of career advancement.

I agree with Flyhayes in that you probably don't want to stay out too long. Say, a maximum of 24 months. By this time, you should have a pretty good idea of which job works out best for you and your family. Don't forget the "family" part. If you have a spouse and/or kids, they need to have a say in this decision.
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:30 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by DashAviator View Post
I respectfully disagree with Flyhayes, although there is some truth to what he says.

I survived two furloughs at my current company. The one in 2009-2011 was especially brutal. Furloughed or not furloughed, there was plenty of pain to go around. Our management took advantage of the situation to push for concessions and violated many of our contract provisions regarding hotel standards and scheduling. In 2008, I was very close to getting an upgrade class. By the end of 2009 I was hanging off the bottom of the FO seniority list by my fingernails.

In my opinion, the guys who sat out the 2009-2011 time period didn't miss much in terms of career advancement.

I agree with Flyhayes in that you probably don't want to stay out too long. Say, a maximum of 24 months. By this time, you should have a pretty good idea of which job works out best for you and your family. Don't forget the "family" part. If you have a spouse and/or kids, they need to have a say in this decision.
The thing is, even if he wanted to come back in 24 months (unless he can do so under a leave of absence), there probably won't be anyone hiring at that point. Most "growth" will be in recalling the furloughed pilot pool. He'll be at the very bottom of the list if he decides to come back. And he might very well lose the ability to upgrade within a decade if he gives up his spot. When the majors and legacies do start hiring again, they'll have their pick of pilots with plenty of PIC turbine time. The shortage will be back, eventually, and the best bet for someone that can hold onto a flying job is to stay put until the pendulum swings. So I guess I can revise my statement. If he's ok delaying his career path progression from maybe 5ish years right now to who knows how far past 10 years if he starts over, then go for it.
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:32 AM
  #26  
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Yes you are less likely to go to a major/LCC if you leave. However there are many people who will be stuck at a regional for their whole career anyway even if they do stay. You might as well find out if you like something else. You would be very unhappy if you didn’t and ended up stuck at a regional in the end.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:22 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Myfingershurt View Post
Does the new job have opportunities for advancement? What does the salary top out at? A job should be what funds your life. It shouldn’t be your life.
Kinda. But not the same as moving from regionals to legacy. Probably tops out at 120 I’m guessing. I agree a job not being your life. But it’s nice to enjoy going to work
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:36 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
I’m on the fence here.
3000 hrs is not a whole lot in the big scheme of things. Especially not without TPIC.
I’d be more comfortable with a leave of absence around the 5-6000 hr mark.
It seems like the no-upgrade disappointment is what triggered this.
Stick with flying and find a side hussle to fill up any income gap.
Yeah. I was really looking forward to the pay increase and being a captain. It would have been nice to be able to do things that I haven’t been able to do the past few years. Going on a nice vacation, not having a roommate, not Staying at a crash pad and having something besides soup and sandwiches as the staple of my diet. I knew what I was getting into when I pursued aviation. I budgeted for about 3 years of FO pay figuring I could upgrade around the 2 year mark which was a reasonable assumption when I started. But everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Thanks for all the comments. It’s a lot of good inputs to consider. I’m surprised that 3 pages of comments I haven’t gotten a smart ass comment, snide remark, or political rant.

I put the question out for an LOA to my company and I’ll see what they say.
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Old 08-31-2020, 11:17 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Flyhayes View Post
The thing is, even if he wanted to come back in 24 months (unless he can do so under a leave of absence), there probably won't be anyone hiring at that point. Most "growth" will be in recalling the furloughed pilot pool. He'll be at the very bottom of the list if he decides to come back. And he might very well lose the ability to upgrade within a decade if he gives up his spot. When the majors and legacies do start hiring again, they'll have their pick of pilots with plenty of PIC turbine time. The shortage will be back, eventually, and the best bet for someone that can hold onto a flying job is to stay put until the pendulum swings. So I guess I can revise my statement. If he's ok delaying his career path progression from maybe 5ish years right now to who knows how far past 10 years if he starts over, then go for it.
He would only take a LOA. Can the company make him stay away even longer involuntary?
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Old 08-31-2020, 11:41 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer View Post
He would only take a LOA. Can the company make him stay away even longer involuntary?
Yes, but I think that would be a furlough.

I don't know where Richmond works, but at my company...

(1) If you take a leave of absence, you KEEP your spot on the seniority list.

(2) If you QUIT, then you get to reapply and start over at the bottom.

(3) If you're FURLOUGHED, you come back to your original spot on the seniority list. According to our contract, pilots will be recalled in reverse seniority order. In other words, the junior guys will be out the longest.

If Richmond thinks he might like to go back to flying in 12-24 months, then the correct move would be to take a leave (if they'll let him have it).
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