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-   -   Leave the industry for software? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/131008-leave-industry-software.html)

jake cutter 09-17-2020 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by airplane401 (Post 3125772)
Currently on furlough with a regional airline (was in airline training as a new hire) and I have a computer science degree. I received an attractive offer as a software engineer and am wondering if it's worth it to even stay in this industry. The offer is $115k base, 40k yearly stock options, 23k bonus. Just a 1500 hour dude.



to me this a no brainer. Take the money and run. If and when you get called back, you can decide then what to do. If nothing else, return full time to flying and use your newly found software skills as a side hustle, as I bet it’s something you can 100% do remote either on a contract basis or your own business .

njd1 09-23-2020 04:49 AM

As someone with 25 years of experience doing embedded hardware and software I can say that the tech industry is not what it once was. If you go into the tech industry, either as a backup or a primary gig, be aware:

1) To get most jobs in tech you need a related degree (computer science, math, engineering). Unlike the major airlines that just want to see you with a generic four year degree, a degree in aviation or some such won't matter to anyone hiring in tech. This is why I tell all prospective pilots to get a STEM degree, even if they just want to fly.

10) Pay skyrockets early in one's tech career but reaches a cap sooner too. There are relatively few purely technical workers (i.e. not managerial roles) making in excess of $150K, particularly outside of the bubble of silicon valley. Unless you're a God in your particular technical discipline (and let's face it, most of us aren't, even if we're good at what we do), $100K will likely be the top pay you'll consistently see, and just like in aviation, once you start making that kind of money management will be looking to replace you with two clueless noobs for less than you're making because MBAs don't understand the work we do and the value of an experienced engineer. And they'll be able to boot you without cause, because you're employed at-will and have no union to protect you.

11) Over the last 25 years the tech industry has developed a serious problem with ageism. This is an industry where someone in their late 20s is considered a "senior" engineer. Even if you are making good money, you better have a plan to be working for yourself or doing something else by age 40 or your employment prospects will be diminished. The days of Bell Labs and gray-haired engineers with 30+ year careers are over. Even if you wind up getting stuck in the regionals your entire career you'll make more over your career in aviation by virtue of the fact that you can be employed through age 65. Good luck retiring from a tech gig.

100) People moan about the prospect of commuting every day to the same office and doing the same thing with the same people each and every day. I really liked that degree of predictability in my schedule but I can see how some might hate it. With that perspective I now enjoy my ever-changing schedule in aviation, but there is something to be said for predictability and the associated lower stress levels. If you want a family and don't want your wife blindsiding you with divorce papers because "you're never here", that grind might be worth it.

101) On a philosophical note, I got into tech and enjoyed my job because I was helping build technology that made people's lives easier. Back in the day we built bulletproof systems with 5-9 reliability because we understood the contract of service we had with our customers and engineering requirements ruled the roost. Now tech is all about extracting as much money from the customer as possible while stripping them of their privacy and rights, to the extent that engineers are forced to make bad engineering decisions precisely to fulfill that strategy. If you go into tech, you need to be comfortable with doing lesser quality work to appease the myopic vision of those whose only metric of success is their bank balance.

Cyio 09-23-2020 10:07 AM


Originally Posted by njd1 (Post 3134404)
As someone with 25 years of experience doing embedded hardware and software I can say that the tech industry is not what it once was. If you go into the tech industry, either as a backup or a primary gig, be aware:

1) To get most jobs in tech you need a related degree (computer science, math, engineering). Unlike the major airlines that just want to see you with a generic four year degree, a degree in aviation or some such won't matter to anyone hiring in tech. This is why I tell all prospective pilots to get a STEM degree, even if they just want to fly.

10) Pay skyrockets early in one's tech career but reaches a cap sooner too. There are relatively few purely technical workers (i.e. not managerial roles) making in excess of $150K, particularly outside of the bubble of silicon valley. Unless you're a God in your particular technical discipline (and let's face it, most of us aren't, even if we're good at what we do), $100K will likely be the top pay you'll consistently see, and just like in aviation, once you start making that kind of money management will be looking to replace you with two clueless noobs for less than you're making because MBAs don't understand the work we do and the value of an experienced engineer. And they'll be able to boot you without cause, because you're employed at-will and have no union to protect you.

11) Over the last 25 years the tech industry has developed a serious problem with ageism. This is an industry where someone in their late 20s is considered a "senior" engineer. Even if you are making good money, you better have a plan to be working for yourself or doing something else by age 40 or your employment prospects will be diminished. The days of Bell Labs and gray-haired engineers with 30+ year careers are over. Even if you wind up getting stuck in the regionals your entire career you'll make more over your career in aviation by virtue of the fact that you can be employed through age 65. Good luck retiring from a tech gig.

100) People moan about the prospect of commuting every day to the same office and doing the same thing with the same people each and every day. I really liked that degree of predictability in my schedule but I can see how some might hate it. With that perspective I now enjoy my ever-changing schedule in aviation, but there is something to be said for predictability and the associated lower stress levels. If you want a family and don't want your wife blindsiding you with divorce papers because "you're never here", that grind might be worth it.

101) On a philosophical note, I got into tech and enjoyed my job because I was helping build technology that made people's lives easier. Back in the day we built bulletproof systems with 5-9 reliability because we understood the contract of service we had with our customers and engineering requirements ruled the roost. Now tech is all about extracting as much money from the customer as possible while stripping them of their privacy and rights, to the extent that engineers are forced to make bad engineering decisions precisely to fulfill that strategy. If you go into tech, you need to be comfortable with doing lesser quality work to appease the myopic vision of those whose only metric of success is their bank balance.

This is a great post, however I have some questions.

1. Is the agism argument mostly in Silicon Valley or do you feel that spreads to all areas of this field?
2. How easy is it to find decent paying tech jobs that can be done while on the road?

Thanks

Swakid8 09-23-2020 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3134595)
This is a great post, however I have some questions.

1. Is the agism argument mostly in Silicon Valley or do you feel that spreads to all areas of this field?
2. How easy is it to find decent paying tech jobs that can be done while on the road?

Thanks

1. I think is area dependent.
2. not hard if you are some kind of consultant or software development/database work. This can be difficult in some cases with networking administration/cyber security.

njd1 09-23-2020 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3134595)
This is a great post, however I have some questions.

1. Is the agism argument mostly in Silicon Valley or do you feel that spreads to all areas of this field?
2. How easy is it to find decent paying tech jobs that can be done while on the road?

Thanks

Ageism is real throughout the industry, however, it's particularly bad in SV.

Unfortunately it's hard to find "good" remote tech work for a variety of reasons, most having to do with trust. More companies are opening up to the idea of remote work, especially since covid hit, but you generally need to have experience in the field and be able to demonstrate that you can be productive in a remote work environment before someone will hire you to do that.

rickair7777 09-23-2020 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by Swakid8 (Post 3134631)
1. I think is area dependent.

Yes, definitely locale dependent. The bay is considered the top of the heap by many so they have plenty of applicants at the top companies and can be picky... they choose to be picky about age.

Swakid8 09-23-2020 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3134745)
Yes, definitely locale dependent. The bay is considered the top of the heap by many so they have plenty of applicants at the top companies and can be picky... they choose to be picky about age.

Definitely, I would go run to the bay for a tech job, there a ton of openings nation wide in different fields of the IT sector. The most likely job will turn into a remote job will be software development/engineering. Otherwise you will be going into the office for other jobs.

Cyber security is another field to get your feet that will provide a solid backup.

rickair7777 09-24-2020 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by Swakid8 (Post 3134805)
Cyber security is another field to get your feet that will provide a solid backup.

I'm thinking about exploring that, I have sufficient foundation to have some options but probably prefer to work from home.

loganeich 10-02-2020 02:29 AM


Originally Posted by Swakid8 (Post 3128027)
Not disagreeing, but it’s not as cut and dry either. Money isn’t end all be all. My point was refuting Lonestars accusation of the OP being a troll.

If I am the OP, I take the job and I probably will not look back.

Edit: I agree with Swakid8, was just responding to troll comment. Need coffee.

I work on power plants for a living, and have made easy six figures the majority of my 20 years out of college. Making six figures is easily obtainable, but requires hard work. I get calls on nights and weekends. You also don’t get any real credit for traveling to see customers. 5 hour drive on Sunday to be at a meeting Monday morning, well that’s how it works. Getting a secure well paying corporate job is not difficult, but you will put in a bunch of time every week and it’s expected. The software companies put all the nice stuff in the office because they expect you to live there.

I started building my hours thinking how great a 3-4 day trip would be as an airline pilot as a second career. I travel for 3-4 days at a time now and still have to work several days afterward. I’ll get my ATP in the next six months and will be ready if a recovery happens in a few years.

If willing to put the time in, there are a lot of jobs that easily make six figures. Will it be something you like doing, probably not. Nobody is trolling you on a corporate job paying six figures. I’m typing this out at 5AM, getting ready for day 5 of the work week.

rickair7777 10-02-2020 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by loganeich (Post 3138977)
Edit: I agree with Swakid8, was just responding to troll comment. Need coffee.

I work on power plants for a living, and have made easy six figures the majority of my 20 years out of college. Making six figures is easily obtainable, but requires hard work. I get calls on nights and weekends. You also don’t get any real credit for traveling to see customers. 5 hour drive on Sunday to be at a meeting Monday morning, well that’s how it works. Getting a secure well paying corporate job is not difficult, but you will put in a bunch of time every week and it’s expected. The software companies put all the nice stuff in the office because they expect you to live there.

I started building my hours thinking how great a 3-4 day trip would be as an airline pilot as a second career. I travel for 3-4 days at a time now and still have to work several days afterward. I’ll get my ATP in the next six months and will be ready if a recovery happens in a few years.

If willing to put the time in, there are a lot of jobs that easily make six figures. Will it be something you like doing, probably not. Nobody is trolling you on a corporate job paying six figures. I’m typing this out at 5AM, getting ready for day 5 of the work week.

All legit, BTDT and had a lot of fun along the way. Fortunately I got into aviation before the girlfriend upgraded to wife and the kids came along.


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