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-   -   Pinnacle, Mesaba or Skyway for a MKE guy (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/13242-pinnacle-mesaba-skyway-mke-guy.html)

Flyboydan 06-03-2007 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by bender (Post 174799)
I talked with a friend who is a ramper/gate agent in MKE, and he told me that even with the initial problems with their block times SkyWest's performance is still leaps and bounds above Skyway. I'd reapply with SKW in 6 months.

We don't have cross trained CSR at MKE. Say what you want to hear or be told but they are getting to be a pain in the butt because we're understaffed to support them, they are always having to swap crews..go figure and they never are in gear to get out early, they are always barely on time, never early. I don't know whether it's a company policy but they the pilots need to get all the but the checklist items done up to "Before Start". Every flight I push, they are always starting from the very first checklist item after they close the door.

JetJock16 06-03-2007 07:19 PM


Originally Posted by Flyboydan (Post 174866)
We don't have cross trained CSR at MKE. Say what you want to hear or be told but they are getting to be a pain in the butt because we're understaffed to support them, they are always having to swap crews..go figure and they never are in gear to get out early, they are always barely on time, never early. I don't know whether it's a company policy but they the pilots need to get all the but the checklist items done up to "Before Start". Every flight I push, they are always starting from the very first checklist item after they close the door.

After you get a clue, pay a little more attention! It takes no time at all to set up an RJ, you hear something different in your headsets and you jump to conclusions. 80% of the time we're delayed becuase you guys can't get the bags on fast enough or your Pax count is wrong; remember addition isn't that hard! Once the door closes and before push we run our Engine Start Checks to the line so we can pay attention in case you try to bend our a/c, then below the line when cleared to start during push. There are checks on the checklist that can't be completed until doors are closed (Beacon, Doors secured, etc) but I don't expect a ramper to understand.

Every a/c is different so don't expect the CRJ's to work the same as the DoJets. The Pre-Start Check is run as the Pax are boarding and takes about 60 seconds.

So Shut Up, brakes released, cleared to push!

Flyboydan 06-04-2007 04:02 AM


Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 174960)
After you get a clue, pay a little more attention! It takes no time at all to set up an RJ, you hear something different in your headsets and you jump to conclusions. 80% of the time we're delayed becuase you guys can't get the bags on fast enough or your Pax count is wrong; remember addition isn't that hard! Once the door closes and before push we run our Engine Start Checks to the line so we can pay attention in case you try to bend our a/c, then below the line when cleared to start during push. There are checks on the checklist that can't be completed until doors are closed (Beacon, Doors secured, etc) but I don't expect a ramper to understand.

Every a/c is different so don't expect the CRJ's to work the same as the DoJets. The Pre-Start Check is run as the Pax are boarding and takes about 60 seconds.

So Shut Up, brakes released, cleared to push!

It takes all the time in the world if you don't have people that know what they're doing. You can only lead a horse to water, can't force them to drink. I don't jump to conclusions when I know what is going on, don't jump on people that know what is going on. If the bags aren't loaded completely it's because we have 3-4 other flights coming on at the same time with 5 maybe 6 people total, last time I checked it takes at least 2 to load a CRJ (with any speed). Then there is boarding passengers for all these flights. Plus on top of it, our gate is stupid and don't think logically so we can't board if they don't send us the people. The pax count is what the gate tells us, we have no control over their words, remember that.
Bend? I'm one of very few people who can actually push and with skill. We have too many people that shouldn't be pushing but once again, not my problem. You personally may have gotten all your checklists done like a good pilot, but I have sat in the tug, chocks out, door up and they are just starting FROM the begining. I know the start of any checklist when I hear one, trust me, I no newbie to aviation. You probably don't expect a ramper to understand, and I don't either, but as a pilot I take this a little insulting that you think I'm just another ramper. At least twice in the week I sat for 10mins after door close, listening to the entire checklist because the crew was sloooow in getting stuff done. Almost every push I'm sitting for 5 minutes or more with door closed and paper work in hand.
Don't shoot the messenger when I'm stating the truth about what is happening on the flights that I am working.

HIREME 06-04-2007 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by Flyboydan (Post 175039)
It takes all the time in the world if you don't have people that know what they're doing. You can only lead a horse to water, can't force them to drink. I don't jump to conclusions when I know what is going on, don't jump on people that know what is going on. If the bags aren't loaded completely it's because we have 3-4 other flights coming on at the same time with 5 maybe 6 people total, last time I checked it takes at least 2 to load a CRJ (with any speed). Then there is boarding passengers for all these flights. Plus on top of it, our gate is stupid and don't think logically so we can't board if they don't send us the people. The pax count is what the gate tells us, we have no control over their words, remember that.
Bend? I'm one of very few people who can actually push and with skill. We have too many people that shouldn't be pushing but once again, not my problem. You personally may have gotten all your checklists done like a good pilot, but I have sat in the tug, chocks out, door up and they are just starting FROM the begining. I know the start of any checklist when I hear one, trust me, I no newbie to aviation. You probably don't expect a ramper to understand, and I don't either, but as a pilot I take this a little insulting that you think I'm just another ramper. At least twice in the week I sat for 10mins after door close, listening to the entire checklist because the crew was sloooow in getting stuff done. Almost every push I'm sitting for 5 minutes or more with door closed and paper work in hand.
Don't shoot the messenger when I'm stating the truth about what is happening on the flights that I am working.

So maybe they were slow, but you may not know the whole story...They could be on the phone w/dispatch discussing weather in route or at their destination, working through a mech. problem, have a disruptive pax., dealing with FAR times, etc...the list could go on so just like we shouldn't always assume rampers can't add, don't assume pilots are just "being slow" or reading the USA Today so they can see how close to the sched. dept. time they can get. Lots of things go on inside the cockpit other than do the checklist and block out.

HIREME 06-04-2007 07:01 AM


Originally Posted by Cessnadriver (Post 173838)
I was recently turned down at a SkyWest interview and was looking for other possibilities for a Milwaukee guy. Right now, I may go someplace to gain some 121 experience to make me more marketable to Skywest in 6 months, but I may decide to stick around if I really like it. Skyway was my first thought since it is local, but I hear that Skywest has some reservations about taking employees away from Midwest.

I was also looking at Pinnacle or Mesaba since their bases are an easy commute from MKE. What would you do in my position? I am also considering Republic. How easy would it be to get an ORD base for a new guy. Right now, I’m at around 1800 and 200 hours with most of my experience in flight instructing.

one piece of advice...Bad management can make all the negative difference in the world. (see: PNCL)

Radar 06-04-2007 08:22 AM


Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 174960)

Every a/c is different so don't expect the CRJ's to work the same as the DoJets. The Pre-Start Check is run as the Pax are boarding and takes about 60 seconds.

So Shut Up, brakes released, cleared to push!

Perfect... Just keep that attitude going because it is exactly and precisely why Skywest has been such an incredible cultural mismatch for Midwest. It is not the poor performance but the attitude which will sign the end of Skywest's relationship with Midwest. The pilot's, the gate agents, and even the beancounting manager's are getting fed up. Bravo! Keep it up!

...not that it will matter because Airtran knows better than to touch you with a ten foot pole.

bender 06-04-2007 02:14 PM


We don't have cross trained CSR at MKE.
My apologies. They are a gate agent for Midwest and have all the operational stats so I'll take their word for it.

JetJock16 06-04-2007 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by Radar (Post 175152)
Perfect... Just keep that attitude going because it is exactly and precisely why Skywest has been such an incredible cultural mismatch for Midwest. It is not the poor performance but the attitude which will sign the end of Skywest's relationship with Midwest. The pilot's, the gate agents, and even the beancounting manager's are getting fed up. Bravo! Keep it up!

...not that it will matter because Airtran knows better than to touch you with a ten foot pole.

You're a bright guy, I can tell by your ramblings. Ever heard of growing pains? SkyWest is one of the only companies that can take on a new code share without having real staffing issues that cause cancellations. Not only that but our relationship with Mgmnt is good, our relationship with each other is good and we perform well above average. Actually we’ve been the #1 performing regional in America for the last 3 years running. Yes it will take us a while to adapt, but we will and we will return to form.

As for MKE, most all of our new hires are headed there so we’re constantly performing IOE which, as you should know, slows down efficiency because we’re “TRAINING” newbie’s! Once they’re fully trained performance will improve. By the time our contract gets into the second year our performance will be that of a regional that has deserved its 35 years of success. If in 5 years Midwest or AirTran decides to bring the flying back in house then that’ll be fine, after all our industry’s based upon code shares that constantly change.

So, if Midwest signed with SKW to make themselves less attractive to AirTran? No wait, that statement is BS in itself, since AirTran came to St George to meet with JA to discuss how SKW could assist AirTran in meeting their future goals when and if they're successful with the purchase. Remember that there is no conflict with DAL, UAL or Midwest as long as we don’t domicile for another carrier at the same airport, doesn't mean we can’t operate for another carrier at the same airport (i.e. We fly for all three at MKE). We operate for both DAL and UAL at almost all of our airports while respecting the domicile clause. Nothing can stop us from doing the same for Midwest and AirTran.


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