DEC into new airline, how difficult is it?
 

For those who got thier 1000 121 hours at one airline as an FO, say GoJet... And then become a DEC at Endeavor.

How hard is the transition?

DEC's suck, you'd go to the bottom of the seniority list for pretty much everything

At my AA WO regional the DECs we’re somewhat resented by the training department and LCAs. Only two were good enough to make through without any hiccups I’m training that I’m aware of. The others had to redo portions of training or withdrew to fly the line as an FO for a while before trying the second time. Generally it wasn’t the aircraft/systems knowledge that did them in but it was headword/SA and failing to meet the expectations of FOM and general company knowledge

KoolJ?
filler

Let me guess, psa

Why entertain a DEC position with horrible Captain seniority when you are competitive enough to go to a ULCC/ACMI for better pay and QOL? You will still get the call from a mainline carrier going that direction….

One other thing that people don't think about is the protection part. As a new hire, you are on probation for a year. That's a year in the left seat with non to few union protections.

SkyWest has had good outcome from
street captains.. (as long as they already have time in the aircraft)

It can be a difficult transition. If they fly the same type as the previous carrier then it's hard to forget old procedures. If it is a different type then you combine learning a new aircraft while also learning a whole new company culture and policies.
In general, I see the most success from candidates with prior 121 PIC experience. Attempting it with the absolute minimum of SIC time to upgrade would generally be foolish.

Yes, it would be a real challenge with no 121. Odds are probably 50/50 at best, unless the carrier makes a very concerted effort to drag you through. Even then, a training bust or two along the way is not going to help your future job prospects.

That might depend more on the individual. If you paid attention for 1000 hours and it's on the same type that shouldn't be too difficult.

Learning somewhat different flows on the same type isn't that big of a deal if you already know systems and you "get" the airplane in question. BTDT.

At some companies probation ends upon CA upgrade, this applies to getting signed off as a DEC.

It is time to be brutally honest with yourself. And I mean brutally. What was your background before 121, how well prepared did you feel as you started IOE, and how much time have you spent preparing yourself for upgrade?

I did 4 years as a check pilot at a regional with a DEC program. It was very rare that I saw someone come in to a new airplane, new airline and new seat succeed. Even ones that were upgrading for the first time into the same type struggled mightily. The very few that excelled were from the previous “generation” where fast upgrade wasn’t a thing and had thousands of hours and many years of experience as an FO at another airline to draw upon.

In addition to learning a new airline’s SOP and culture, possibly a new airplane, along with learning how to be a captain, you’re also going to be dealing with inexperienced check pilots teaching you, who themselves are still learning the role.

Upgrade at a regional can be hard, so much gets dumped onto the captain. In this environment you’ll be pushed eight ways from Sunday; scheduling, dispatch, gate agents, passengers, FAs, chief pilots, FOs, mechanics, all trying to take your certificate from you. And as been pointed out, you’ll be doing it not just on probation, but without the foundation of good relationships developed over time.

Unless you are absolutely, 100% positive you are ready to take on that task, I would pass. That you’re asking is a good sign; if you had no hesitations about it, that is a sure sign you’re not ready and prepared; way too far to the left on the Dunning-Krueger curve, possibly near the peak of Mount Stupid.

We often say that flying is a very, very small part of being a Captain, and that is true. The problem is, too many think that to mean that it is not important. It is vitally important, and should not be any conscious concern, as there are so many other things that are occupying your attention. 1000 hours SIC is, in my opinion, the bare minimum required to prepare oneself to upgrade at their own airline; my preferred metric would be to see each season twice. At the very least, two winters, and by winters I don’t mean flying around the warm weather areas in and out of Houston, Miami, LA and Phoenix.

This is a rambling post, but in a long way of saying it, I strongly discourage attempting to upgrade for the first time as a 1000 hour FO as a DEC at another airline. It almost never goes well.

As a DEC your quality of life is going to suck so badly I wouldn't consider it unless you live in or near that airline's junior base.

Gold star for this post.

most of the DEC i know. Do it. Get the “recency”. And are gone to a major within a year… Its a good way yo get back in the game so your app will get looked at..

Absolutely. For experienced pilots, especially lost decade people with years in the right seat, it's a good way to get current and get noticed. For an inexperienced pilot with the minimum requirements trying to skip a few months waiting for upgrade or collect a big signing bonus, it's mostly just a good way to collect a PRIA ding.

No, but the principles are the same. Not well endeared by people on the seniority list and pilots struggle by not having any company experience prior to their arrival.

You're probably better upgrading where you are or moving on to a LCC as an FO on your way to United, Dal or AA.

Yup. I know people (lost gen) doing exactly that. The relative-seniority suck is just the price of admission to get back in the game, nobody has any illusions there.

With everybody being able to upgrade as soon as they qualify and with the Major's hiring like they are there should be no reason big enough to cause somebody to enter one of these programs unless they are coming from outside Part 121. It' a dumb move

My friends were out of aviation for a decade+

I would argue that's probably a dumb move if you DON'T have prior 121... they system just isn't designed for that.

Great post c402. (expanded version of what Tallpilot said).
If have never been Captain or flown the type, it's a bit much. Throw on all the "local knowledge" that one gets only by flying for that particular airline and ,well,... what you said.
Add to it that just about every First Officer, Flight Attendant, Dispatcher and Crew Scheduler you will deal with is also new (or relatively so) and it can be an interesting mix.

To build on that, there’s so much more that gets missed foregoing those 18-24 months in the right seat of said airline. Knowing the contract, the FOM, the nuances of the airplane that aren’t always written in the manuals. Knowing your contractual rights when scheduling tries to push you. Having a working knowledge of the FOM to CYA when you have to make a difficult call as the PIC. Having that time as an FO to live and digest that stuff passively as you work towards that 1000 SIC is often overlooked. In today’s hiring market I’d be very cautious making that DEC jump, whether it be for TPIC or financial reasons. A bust isn’t the end of the world but it just leads to unnecessary questions on an interview. As it was said: be brutally honest with yourself, weigh all possible opportunities, and know what you’re getting into.

Along those lines... the CA is often the adult supervision of the operation. If he's not familiar with operational and cultural nuances, it's going to be a lot harder to tap the brakes and say "we're not going to do this today". He has to be comfortable saying no to dispatch, station ops, crew scheduling, ATC, and even flight ops management. Have to know the regs and FOM inside and out, at least to the point where you know what page to turn to for the right answer. When you have 3 other crew, 70 pax, four rampers, one gate agent, and one station manager all standing there expecting you to go, the pressure is on... hard spot for someone who is basically a new-hire 121 noob.

Must have been reading my mind; was just about to reply stating how the captain often has to be the adult in the room, so to speak.

And at a regional hiring street captains, most likely that FO sitting next to you either has less than 1000 hours themselves, or was unable to make it through upgrade. Either way, not going to be as helpful as you're gaining your footing at a new airline, while you learn to be a captain, and learn a new airplane.