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John Stossel on the pilot shortage.

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John Stossel on the pilot shortage.

Old 05-25-2022, 01:20 PM
  #41  
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Everyone’s talking about reducing the requirements to fly 121….

Why not reduce the requirements for 135s? For both the pilots and the certificate holders.

I was fortunate to fly essential air service and cargo on my way to 1500 hours and I felt like I came into the airlines a leg up on the guys who watched someone else fly for 1500 hours. It also went by faster and I made better income.

The problem isn’t the 1500 hour rule, it’s the lack of opportunities of great experience making jobs to get to 1500 hours. Gmafb you don’t need 1200 hours to safely captain a caravan and a 135 cargo certificate shouldn’t cost $500k+.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:26 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
You could grant 2-for-1 credit for say instructor time. That's pretty easy to document and verify, and risky to fabricate.

Hard IMC, turbine, ME, even night flying is also reasonably valuable but it's a lot easier to game that sort of experience, or just fabricate it. You could pay some guy to ride along in his kerosene burner and log it without knowing a thing about the plane or touching a single control. You can pencil whip all the IMC you want, as long as it wasn't all in Arizona in the spring time.
I would make for like say a Part 135 operator or a aircraft that requires a type. A type rating is easily verifiable.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:32 PM
  #43  
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Don’t forget this is not the first attack of the ATP rule. John Thune of SD 5 years ago got legislation passed to allow 1000 hours. Calling it 1500 isn’t even genuine anymore because most have 1000 hours due to Thune & co.
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Old 05-25-2022, 02:04 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
Stossel doesn’t understand literally anything about this issue, he’s just another pundit speaking out of school.
Of course he doesn't know anything, his job is to sell advertising space for his network. Fortunately, most Americans don't have any skill in reasoning and just take what they're served from the media. Take what most journalists say about aviation and consider that's the level of awareness they have in other subject too!
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Old 05-25-2022, 02:38 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Around the same time-frame I'm on a mesa jumpseat, the LCA was doing new-hire IOE. From the east to BFL or maybe FAT, so rapid descent into the valley after clearing the Sierras. We do the lav shuffle, and the CA tells me (while the trainee is out) that she has issues with descent planning. On this leg, he's not going to say anything and just let her manage it all on her own. We get PD for the descent... and arrive over the marker at FL230
FL230 at the outer marker ? I find that hard to believe
Atc would have initiated your descent well before then ,even if the PD descent out of cruise was not sufficient.
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Old 05-25-2022, 02:45 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
You could grant 2-for-1 credit for say instructor time. That's pretty easy to document and verify, and risky to fabricate.

Hard IMC, turbine, ME, even night flying is also reasonably valuable but it's a lot easier to game that sort of experience, or just fabricate it. You could pay some guy to ride along in his kerosene burner and log it without knowing a thing about the plane or touching a single control. You can pencil whip all the IMC you want, as long as it wasn't all in Arizona in the spring time.
Totally agree about the difficulty in documenting other-than-dual given scenarios. And at the same time I'm also not convinced that instructing is somehow the gold standard of time building. It builds some skills, but weather avoidance and upset training seems to be two areas which are problematic. Some CFIs just aren't very good pilots, so it seems like there'd need to be a way to vet them.

Maybe being able to fly the IAC Primary sequence should be added to the ATP ACS.
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Old 05-25-2022, 02:52 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by bradthepilot View Post
Totally agree about the difficulty in documenting other-than-dual given scenarios. And at the same time I'm also not convinced that instructing is somehow the gold standard of time building. It builds some skills, but weather avoidance and upset training seems to be two areas which are problematic.
Instructing is not. It does however get your brain engaged in piloting, and teaches you to think ahead and anticipate. It's also a readily available means of time building.

Originally Posted by bradthepilot View Post
Some CFIs just aren't very good pilots, so it seems like there'd need to be a way to vet them.
Tough nut to crack. We already have ACS, checkrides, and PRIA/PRD... all of that taken together usually works pretty well, unless employers are just hell bent on hiring regardless.

But Renslow didn't need to be a great a pilot, he just needed to STHU and focus himself and his FO on the task at hand. He might have learned that, if he'd been a CFI instead of 121 seat-meat prior to upgrade
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Old 05-25-2022, 03:35 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by EAFF95 View Post
Everyone’s talking about reducing the requirements to fly 121….

Why not reduce the requirements for 135s? For both the pilots and the certificate holders.

I was fortunate to fly essential air service and cargo on my way to 1500 hours and I felt like I came into the airlines a leg up on the guys who watched someone else fly for 1500 hours. It also went by faster and I made better income.

The problem isn’t the 1500 hour rule, it’s the lack of opportunities of great experience making jobs to get to 1500 hours. Gmafb you don’t need 1200 hours to safely captain a caravan and a 135 cargo certificate shouldn’t cost $500k+.
+1 to lowering Part 135 mins, its psychotic. A kid can come out of a 141 university and fly a jet before he can be an IFR PIC under part 135. Why is it that all this great education from these R-ATP waiver schools can only apply to Part 121? Govt waste of course!

But here’s the real issue if Stossel want to play the government interference card, GA flying is significantly more expensive for kids today than it was for guys back in the days of old. The FAA can only do so much to lower that, but why are we charging hundreds of bucks for an alternator belt on a Cherokee that’s the same as on your Chevy, but has the FAA stamp of approval. Lowering the operating cost of GA should be the goal if you want to make it easier to get more guys to sign on. The Jet A fuel transition in recips won’t happen overnight, but it definitely helps cost for students as well compared to 100LL.

Last bit, regardless of the great things the 1500 hour rule has done for all of us, if they tossed it tomorrow, there’d be so few CFIs on the street that cost and wait times for even primary training would kill the industry overnight. I know not everyone CFIs to get their time, but without the 1500 hour rule we wouldn’t have new CFIs to make new pilots. We’re treading on thin ice, and the slightest bump will collapse this house of cards.
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Old 05-25-2022, 04:46 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by DVNO View Post
+1 to lowering Part 135 mins, its psychotic. A kid can come out of a 141 university and fly a jet before he can be an IFR PIC under part 135. Why is it that all this great education from these R-ATP waiver schools can only apply to Part 121? Govt waste of course!

But here’s the real issue if Stossel want to play the government interference card, GA flying is significantly more expensive for kids today than it was for guys back in the days of old. The FAA can only do so much to lower that, but why are we charging hundreds of bucks for an alternator belt on a Cherokee that’s the same as on your Chevy, but has the FAA stamp of approval. Lowering the operating cost of GA should be the goal if you want to make it easier to get more guys to sign on. The Jet A fuel transition in recips won’t happen overnight, but it definitely helps cost for students as well compared to 100LL.

Last bit, regardless of the great things the 1500 hour rule has done for all of us, if they tossed it tomorrow, there’d be so few CFIs on the street that cost and wait times for even primary training would kill the industry overnight. I know not everyone CFIs to get their time, but without the 1500 hour rule we wouldn’t have new CFIs to make new pilots. We’re treading on thin ice, and the slightest bump will collapse this house of cards.
I agree.

They should just get rid of the LSA rating and have the rules apply to normal sized planes people can actually use like the 172. Watch new GA plane manufacturing come back.

You can tell the regulations aren’t working when people don’t build new airplanes and parts cost a ton and then your only path to getting an airline career totally negates all the mom and pop airlines out there.

1500 hour rule isn’t the problem. Getting rid of the rule doesn’t negate the underlying problem.
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Old 05-25-2022, 07:11 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Swakid8 View Post
I would make for like say a Part 135 operator or a aircraft that requires a type. A type rating is easily verifiable.
Except you need 1200 hours. You can SIC of course, but the you're back where you started.


I don't think it would be a good idea to reduce the 135 PIC requirement... then you'd have wet commercials flying the public around, often single pilot.
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