New turboprop by Embrarer:
 

Smart move. Eventually global warming concerns will outweigh the pax inherent fear and loathing of crop-dusters.

You must be a huge fan of the film "Idiocracy"

Electric planes are the next big thing. Turboprops are dated

I always wonder if an electric plane could ever be ETOPS certified.

I think we need one more product cycle of 'sustainable aviation fuel' powered turbines before battery technology has the energy density necessary to provide comparable range.

I'm a proud member of the props are for boats club but the reality is they have their place for certain missions. I flew full Q400s out of Aspen which makes a lot more economic sense than half full CRJ700s.

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Chicks dig beta-those big props will be droppin' P's left and right.

"Energy density" for this discussion is actually specific energy, ie energy per unit mass.

Energy density (energy per volume) also matters for aviation but energy density is the real kicker...

Batteries will never have energy density comparable to kerosene. Chemistry is based on physics... electron valance energy isn't changing, at least not in this reality. There are no big surprises left in the stable (non-radioactive) areas of periodic table, or Newtonian physics.

Max *theoretical* specific energy for electro-chemical storage is ballpark 1000 WH/Kg. Current battery technology can actually utilize maybe 250 WH/Kg. That's at the cell level, you lose some in the packaging and battery management. Maybe they can get that up to 800WH/Kg someday?

Kerosene's specific energy is 12,000 WH/Kg...

Batteries can *someday* plausibly be used for smallish regional aircraft on stage lengths of a maybe a couple hundred NM. Bigger or longer than that, an you need liquid fuels.

H2 has a very good specific energy, better than kerosene actually. But it falls short on *energy density*... it takes up a huge volume, so you need a huge airframe to hold that volume, and that's heavy and expensive, so you need more fuel, etc.

Remember the Saturn V? That burned kerosene. Space shuttle on the hand burned H2, and needed that big orange external tank to carry enough.




Yes they absolutely have a practical niche, they were phased out because pax didn't like them. A new generation with an emphasis on low noise and vibration might be a renaissance.

Perhaps, but flying them out of large airports where you have an hour or two wait between being able to park and getting through TSA and then a long wait taxiing out will surely limit their utility.

A car doing 60 mph can beat many regionals on a two hundred mile trip when you consider all the delays.

not many people book only a 200 mile flight. That’s usually only one segment of several.

Agreed, but if that’s all the range your plane winds up with…

How long will it take to recharge a set of batteries? Are they going to be competitive with 30 minute to 1 hour turns with liquid fuels?

I would have thought that a hybrid approach would be used first. One small turbine used to provide electricity to electric motors with a battery back up system and running on bio fairy dust or whatever is on tap next from the fuel trucks.

For the short ranges for which they are practical, yes.

Or just swap batteries.

There are also "liquid" batteries in the development. For those you could simply swap the liquid, drain and refill, and then charge the used liquid at your leisure for later re-use.

I'm confident that charge time won't be an issue (for small planes). Worst case if you're hell bent on electric, use H2 and fuel cells. Still no emissions in the air, other than water. H2 has it's own issues, but would actually provide longer range than batteries of any sort. Although the fuel cells aren't particularly light.

if that’s all the range you end up with, people still aren’t going to be evaluating car vs air for such a trip. They don’t now and won’t in the future

Can we talk about the practicality of these things in the US market?

Who’s going to buy and operate them? The regionals who are dying a slow death who’ve spent all their resources transitioning from the CRJ to the ERJ?

The legacies are investing in electric powered lifts to get people to the airport. They already support the regional lift. Now they’d be adding a third totally different type of fleet that would require new sims, training programs, and mx certifications.

Are they going to ask Uncle Joe (or whoever’s next) to print more money to pay for all this?

Well, I'm more worry about if their autopilot loves to kiss concrete like those Xsla.