Mesa vs Envoy (DEC comparison)
 

Hello All,

I recently learned that Mesa will be offering DEC seats in January.

Currently have a DEC CJO with Envoy, but one of the Mesa ERJ docimicles holds a lot of appeal.

With either job I'd be moving to live in-base, and I only have a couple of years left in the 121 world so I'm not looking to flow, move-on, or make less in the right seat at a major or ULCC.

Like many folks on APC, I'm familiar with Mesa's reputation but my (current) sense of things is that any regional has it's issues.

Just wanted to make sure that I'm not missing something significant.

Many thanks.

Envoy has better soft pay rules; 1:2 duty and 1:4 trip rigs and 100% deadhead pay. Mesa has no rigs and 60% deadhead pay. Envoy has a new minimum of 12 days off per month that I think begins in January, Mesa has a minimum of 11 days off. Envoy has AQP training, Mesa does not.

Envoy has lots of bonuses that you will get to keep if you plan to retire there, Mesa is only offering bonuses for non-flying instructors. Envoy will issue you an iPad, Mesa will make you buy your own but will give you $40 a month towards maintaining it.

Envoy will give you up to ten years of longevity credit for part 121 experience towards pay, vacation, and retirement. Mesa said in their TA that they might offer longevity credit at their discretion but they are not advertising longevity credit to new hires at this time. Mesa’s starting pay is higher, but with Envoys longevity credit you will receive higher pay there plus bonuses.

Mesa guarantees 76 hours pay per month to CRJ and E175 pilots, Envoy guarantees 75 hours to reserve pilots and 72 hours to line holders. Both airlines will junior man you and assign ready reserve, and you will be junior a long time as a DEC. Overall, I think Envoy has the QOL edge, the extra day off is worth a lot all by itself.

12 day minimum is already implemented. Trip and Duty rigs come Jan 2023

Something to add to this, you can’t be junior manned at Mesa. They can and will try but all you have to say is unavailable and there is nothing they can do about it.

Correct with everything but the junior man. Mesa has junior available and you can just say you’re not available.

That said, I’d go with envoy if I were picking today.

Interesting. Before I left Mesa, I remember the chief pilot calling to literally yell at me for telling crew tracking I was too tired to fly after my scheduled duty off time on day six after a week of late night reserve and stand up over nights. He was especially mad because I had vacation starting. I got away with saying no but it wasn’t a pleasant experience.

I figured someone would correct me over something. I just have a hard time with the idea that the Mesa experience is equal to any other regional.

I have been wanting to get back into flying after 15 years away and have narrowed it down to SkyWest and Envoy to get current. The advantage of SkyWest for me is the potential to get based in Seattle. The advantage of Envoy is that they are union and I might possibly be able to bounce to Delta faster to get a Seattle base as Delta seems reluctant to hire pilots from their regional feed, especially captains. I have lots of 121 TPIC time figure both Envoy and SkyWest would force me to upgrade quickly so I might as well volunteer; someone on the Envoy board said they let you sit right seat for 300 hours if you haven’t flown in the last five years but they don’t want to train you twice. There are pros and cons to everything, but I understand how strong the pull of a pilot base can be.

It is amazing how much the industry has improved in 15 years.

The IAD chief pilot doesn’t even know how to yell. He’s a company man for sure, and he’s a good guy. You can be both. He has no problem with people flying and enforcing the contract. They’ll code it as necessary when you don’t. He actually apologized to me one time when I called in fatigued because of the situation.

IAD chief will also not back you up under any circumstance. Nice Guy tho

Go to mesa or envoy

This is nice, instead of having to play that stupid game of not refreshing your schedule on the ipad or declining their phone call when they call you repeatedly to twist your arm or else ..when your fam’s already waiting for you to get home.

Does anyone know the OT comparisons of the two?

Breeze is hiring DECs into the EJET. Pay 30 more per hour than either of the regionals you're looking at.

One consideration is that currently to qualify as a DEC for Breeze, you need 1500 in a group II aircraft under Pt.121.

I would still go to Breeze as an FO rather than a dying regional as a DEC and sit reserve until the ship sinks

isn’t breeze cancelling routes?

They canceled the direct SFO-CHS for the two weeks following thanksgiving, before Christmas, when demand drops. But they’re still covering that route via a “breeze-thru” in RIC and SDF.

Also adding routes out of CVG and MCO. So no…. but Simple Flying must hire writers that came from TheOnion