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Old 06-30-2007, 01:27 PM   #1  
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Default Checkride failures

Hey, just wondering what constitutes a check ride failure. I went to Riddle and ratings were basically divided into 3 stages. You took a stage check at the end of each stage with the stage three check being your end of course. Riddle is self examining except for the commercial end of course you have to use a D.E. I've failed a few stage checks and an end of course, so I guess Iím just wondering if I have to say I failed an FAA check ride. I know at Express jet they specifically ask if you failed stage checks so I plan on telling the truth. However, some companies ask only about FAA check rides. Are stage checks and end of course at self examining schools the same thing as a FAA check ride.
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Old 06-30-2007, 02:59 PM   #2  
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Yeah, I've been asked about them as well and I was honest and told them about the one oral that I wasn't prepared for and how I learned from it and they asked if it was an actual checkride with the FAA or a stage check and I told them about the program and they basically brushed it off and moved on, so don't worry about it. In your case I would be honest and emphasize the positive, how you learned from it etc.

Last edited by flyandive; 06-30-2007 at 03:00 PM. Reason: One more thought
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:17 AM   #3  
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Yes, an end of course check at a self examining school is a checkride failure, AFAIK. If you filled out an 8710, and the ride would have ended up in you getting a crisp new temporary certificate, and you didn't get it, that's a checkride failure whether you have internal examiners, a DPE, or a local FSDO FAA examiner. Stage checks are not a checkride failure. I also had an airline ask me in a telephone interview if I had ever failed a stage check, as well as being asked about checkride failures. Luckily, I've never failed a ride. But, I knew one guy who failed every checkride he ever took at least once, and still got hired on his first try.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:57 AM   #4  
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Originally Posted by gbntpilot View Post
Yes, an end of course check at a self examining school is a checkride failure, AFAIK. If you filled out an 8710, and the ride would have ended up in you getting a crisp new temporary certificate, and you didn't get it, that's a checkride failure whether you have internal examiners, a DPE, or a local FSDO FAA examiner. Stage checks are not a checkride failure. I also had an airline ask me in a telephone interview if I had ever failed a stage check, as well as being asked about checkride failures. Luckily, I've never failed a ride. But, I knew one guy who failed every checkride he ever took at least once, and still got hired on his first try.
I agree...
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:28 AM   #5  
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I know at Express jet they specifically ask if you failed stage checks so I plan on telling the truth.
I failed my first instrument checkride. I also failed my first and second CFI ride. They were interested in the two failed CFI rides no doubt. So I told them, First time the Examiner "found the aircraft to be unairworthy", second time "my lazy eights didn't meet standards". They knew it was an FAA examiner and how those rides can go, depending on the individual you have. Anyhow, I told Expressjet, and I work there now. They will surely review your airman history and find out. Just tell the truth, explain, take responsibility etc. etc.

Good Luck, hope to see you on board

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Old 07-01-2007, 04:29 AM   #6  
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A checkride is a checkide is a checkride.

Why risk being deceitful in an important interview. It is not worth it.

If you are honest you will come out ahead every time. And if you do not get hired it will not be because of failed checkrides.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:13 AM   #7  
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Every one can fail a checkride at any time. I failed a couple at Riddle myself, and guess what, I learned from them and moved on. Flying in the military for 5.5 years I haven't failed one and I think that is in large part due to the lessons I learned at Riddle.

Showing that you made a mistake and learned from it shows that you are mature, honest, and a professional. Having never made a mistate shows that you are just plain lucky.

Best of luck with the interviews.

Brian
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:52 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcrew View Post
Hey, just wondering what constitutes a check ride failure. I went to Riddle and ratings were basically divided into 3 stages. You took a stage check at the end of each stage with the stage three check being your end of course. Riddle is self examining except for the commercial end of course you have to use a D.E. I've failed a few stage checks and an end of course, so I guess I’m just wondering if I have to say I failed an FAA check ride. I know at Express jet they specifically ask if you failed stage checks so I plan on telling the truth. However, some companies ask only about FAA check rides. Are stage checks and end of course at self examining schools the same thing as a FAA check ride.
No they are not. A stage check is simply that. A stage check. An end of course does nothing but get your grade to you. In order to get a license under part 141 rules you have to complete the 141 syllabus before being able to take your checkride. Not passing the syllabus doesn't mean you didn't pass the checkride. It simply means you weren't ready by their standards. You could easily fail the end of course and still go get a sign off and do it under part 61. I did that. I went to Baylor University and we had a joint program with a 121 school, TSTC. TSTC ran on a trimester while Baylor was a traditional university in the sense that you you had a fall/spring semester that started and ended on normal times. In order for me to graduate Baylor needed me to have all of my ratings. However TSTCs courses didn't end until a few weeks after graduation. I quit the 141 syllabus and got signed off on a part 61 certificate then took my checkrides and got them done in time to graduate. I never completed the end of courses for three ratings which in turn turned into fails because I started the syllabus but didn't finish technically. I picked up my bachelors and left my associates degree sitting on the table. It wasn't worth the trouble to go back and get it.

If you didn't fill out an 8710 and then have to sign a pink slip from the examiner where he then mailed it off to the FAA then you didn't fail. From what you've said you haven't failed any checkrides.

Duck
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:33 AM   #9  
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Here's the deal...if you were issued a little pink piece of paper that says "Discontinuance" on it...you have failed a checkride (usually...although they can be discontinued for weather, maintenance, etc). However, if you failed the "End-Of-Course" ride at a Part 141 school WITH examining authority, YOU HAVE NOT FAILED A CHECKRIDE. Those schools don't do "checkrides" they merely graduate you from a course. It just so happens that the very last lesson in the course is very checkride-ish. However, if you fail that...no pink piece of paper....no failure. The FAA requires Part 141 schools to disclose how many of their students pass the End-Of-Course ride on the first attempt...but it's a percentage...not a list of names. The closest the FAA comes to seeing if you failed an End-Of-Course is when they get your syllabus for review along with yoru 8710 packet. However...guess what...they don't keep track of whether you failed the last lesson or not.

How you want to disclose that in an interview is your own business. I stuck to the notion that "I did all my training Part 141 so I never really took a checkride, we just had End-Of-Course rides." The follow up question is always "Well did you fail one of those" to which I'm fortunate enough to say "Nope".

P.S. - The key to all this is the "examining authority" part. If you do that last lesson with a D.E. or an FAA guy...it's a checkride.

P.S.S. - I didn't know Riddle lost Examining Authority on their Commercial Syllabus...that's not a good thing.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:54 AM   #10  
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End of course, as far as flying goes, is just one of those 3hrs in prep for your checkride. You can't get your certificate for completing it. If asked if you've ever failed a checkride you say NO! Having to redo a "lesson" is no big deal and doesn't need to be brought up.
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