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2023 Which Regional to go with?
Currently at ATP Flight School. Trying to figure out my plans ahead of time.
Currently I live in the Charlotte, NC area. So I would like to stay around the area when a major comes around. I know American Airlines is here for a major. I know Piedmont and PSA is here for regional. Is there one better than another? Anyone have a faster flow? How long should I expect to flow? Should I go with American because it’s big and nearby or should I move to a different carrier? Just trying to get some ideas. Thanks! |
I can't speak to the differences but those two would be obvious choices to stay in CLT.
You may or may not have heard this, but if you want to get to AA faster, you may consider a non wholly-owned regional instead. The majors prefer to poach from their competitors than hire outside the flow. Thus, you could get to a major in 2 years vs 5 or more for the flow. Just something to think about. |
You should NEVER expect to flow
Flow is career insurance. Plan to apply for a better job |
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3628014)
Trying to figure out my plans ahead of time.
As others in this thread have mentioned, you may best benefit by temporarily sacrificing QOL to get you your seniority number at your career destination of choice quicker. Or, you may be worried about getting “stuck” somewhere during a downturn and prioritize a place that gives you better QOL initially. Nobody knows how things will work out, or what the right formula is for you—but if you can figure out what is most important to you, the opportunities will start to fall into an order that makes sense. Free advice, may be worth what it cost. |
Originally Posted by three1five
(Post 3628205)
. . . Free advice, may be worth what it cost.
Be flexible. What you think you want now may not be what you want in the future. Always be open to other possibilities, companies, and paths to advance your career and never become hyper-focused on one company. |
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3628014)
Currently at ATP Flight School. Trying to figure out my plans ahead of time.
Currently I live in the Charlotte, NC area. So I would like to stay around the area when a major comes around. I know American Airlines is here for a major. I know Piedmont and PSA is here for regional. Is there one better than another? Anyone have a faster flow? How long should I expect to flow? Should I go with American because it’s big and nearby or should I move to a different carrier? Just trying to get some ideas. Thanks! PSA is between than Piedmont, Piedmont has the faster flow. Flow is 7.5-10+ years. Don’t go to Piedmont or PSA if you want to go to American. Go to Piedmont or PSA if you want Delta or United. |
Originally Posted by FlyinCat
(Post 3628153)
I can't speak to the differences but those two would be obvious choices to stay in CLT.
You may or may not have heard this, but if you want to get to AA faster, you may consider a non wholly-owned regional instead. The majors prefer to poach from their competitors than hire outside the flow. Thus, you could get to a major in 2 years vs 5 or more for the flow. Just something to think about. |
Originally Posted by Brickfire
(Post 3628154)
You should NEVER expect to flow
Flow is career insurance. Plan to apply for a better job |
Originally Posted by three1five
(Post 3628205)
Free internet advice: your two most important factors will be seniority and QOL. There’s a relationship between QOL and seniority and it’s slightly different for everyone. Figure out what that relationship is for you ahead of time, and then be willing to change plans if necessary to best fulfill those two most important things.
As others in this thread have mentioned, you may best benefit by temporarily sacrificing QOL to get you your seniority number at your career destination of choice quicker. Or, you may be worried about getting “stuck” somewhere during a downturn and prioritize a place that gives you better QOL initially. Nobody knows how things will work out, or what the right formula is for you—but if you can figure out what is most important to you, the opportunities will start to fall into an order that makes sense. Free advice, may be worth what it cost. Like longer flights vs smaller flights to stay at home more? Or benefit wise? |
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3628722)
I thought flow was a guarantee to get a job at that airline.
It’s not a guarantee. Lots of things can impact flow progression. The obvious one is an airline stops hiring but there could be changes to the flow program as well. But even assuming the program works as advertised, what really matters is time to flow. An airline pilots life is determined by seniority. Regional airlines are a stepping stone and you want a seniority number at a destination job asap. If you can get hired at TWA two years before you flow to Braniff… that’s a win. |
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3628723)
I guess I’m starting to learn. Obviously reserve is a QOL points, can you give me more examples?
Like longer flights vs smaller flights to stay at home more? Pilots get paid basically when the plane is moving. At better airlines (generally majors) they generally also get paid if they spend a lot of time parked on layovers. Since it takes typically one hour + to turn an aircraft, if you do five one-hour regional legs you're going to work 12 hours and get paid 5. So that's three long, hard days to get 15 hours. This is worst case for regionals, many legs are actually longer. If you fly a transcon you work seven, get paid six. May have a 24+ hour layover, get paid 5-6 for that too. Then come do one leg back. So you worked 2-3 days and got paid about 15-18. Long-haul is even better, work one leg and get paid 10-14. You'll rotate through in flight rest periods so you're actually sleeping for part of that but still getting paid. Repeat on the return trip and you credit 30-30 hours for the trip, usually closer to 30. Only have to do that 2-3 times each month. Day trips, aka "Locals" or "Turns" are available in some bases and they often go senior. The big advantage is that you're home every night, the downside is driving to the airport, dealing with parking and TSA every day. You may have to work more days if the local trips are shorter distances, but if it's 3+ hours one way it can be pretty efficient.
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3628723)
Or benefit wise?
Top-tier/legacy majors are slightly better than LCC, which should all be better than any regional. The only time specific benefits really matter much is you have some specific circumstances... Chronic health issues with a family member, might want to research who has the best health insurance. If you have a health issue which puts you at risk for losing your medical, make sure your airline has a good disability program (either company provided, or a pilot group plan that you can buy into). |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3628743)
Pilots generally need to accumulate about 75-85 hours per month (lots of variables but that's reasonable for this discussion. So lets say you want to credit 15 hours/trip and do 3-day trips.
Pilots get paid basically when the plane is moving. At better airlines (generally majors) they generally also get paid if they spend a lot of time parked on layovers. Since it takes typically one hour + to turn an aircraft, if you do five one-hour regional legs you're going to work 12 hours and get paid 5. So that's three long, hard days to get 15 hours. This is worst case for regionals, many legs are actually longer. If you fly a transcon you work seven, get paid six. May have a 24+ hour layover, get paid 5-6 for that too. Then come do one leg back. So you worked 2-3 days and got paid about 15-18. Long-haul is even better, work one leg and get paid 10-14. You'll rotate through in flight rest periods so you're actually sleeping for part of that but still getting paid. Repeat on the return trip and you credit 30-30 hours for the trip, usually closer to 30. Only have to do that 2-3 times each month. Day trips, aka "Locals" or "Turns" are available in some bases and they often go senior. The big advantage is that you're home every night, the downside is driving to the airport, dealing with parking and TSA every day. You may have to work more days if the local trips are shorter distances, but if it's 3+ hours one way it can be pretty efficient. Details vary but benefits are generally pretty standard across industry segments. "Good" regionals are slightly better than bottom feeders. Top-tier/legacy majors are slightly better than LCC, which should all be better than any regional. The only time specific benefits really matter much is you have some specific circumstances... Chronic health issues with a family member, might want to research who has the best health insurance. If you have a health issue which puts you at risk for losing your medical, make sure your airline has a good disability program (either company provided, or a pilot group plan that you can buy into). |
Spirit.
why would you want to fly at a regional? |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 3628964)
Spirit.
why would you want to fly at a regional? |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 3628964)
Spirit.
why would you want to fly at a regional? If someone wants to hang around for a decade, sure, definitely take Spirit |
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629216)
I’d like to make it to American eventually.
|
Originally Posted by Reader
(Post 3629218)
For those looking to move on? Higher pay and faster upgrades.
If someone wants to hang around for a decade, sure, definitely take Spirit |
Originally Posted by Reader
(Post 3629218)
For those looking to move on? Higher pay and faster upgrades.
If someone wants to hang around for a decade, sure, definitely take Spirit Going to a regional is a horrible idea. They are in a death spiral. |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 3629234)
United , American and Delta hire new Spirit first officers daily.
Going to a regional is a horrible idea. They are in a death spiral. |
Originally Posted by Otterbox
(Post 3629222)
You’re better off going to a U/LCC or Endeavor or Republic if you want to go to American and your flight training history isn’t a disaster. Steer clear of the Wholly Owned regionals.
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Originally Posted by Crjdeuce
(Post 3629228)
Higher pay where? Last I checked other than first year pay, Spirit FOs are making as much or more than regional captains.
But what happens if I get a type rating for a 320 and they no longer need pilots for that type rating? |
Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629366)
What’s U/LCC?
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Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629216)
I’d like to make it to American eventually.
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Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629367)
It does appear to be so.
But what happens if I get a type rating for a 320 and they no longer need pilots for that type rating? |
Originally Posted by Crjdeuce
(Post 3629228)
Higher pay where? Last I checked other than first year pay, Spirit FOs are making as much or more than regional captains.
Obviously, there is no way to know how long you’ll be anywhere or which will work out best until you can look at it in hindsight. With bonus and CA pay, a calculator shows that it takes a few years before reaching a break even point for me to go to Spirit vs some of the regionals. Clearly, there is a decent reason for some people to consider it. |
Originally Posted by TransWorld
(Post 3629381)
Ultra or Low Cost Carriers. Allegiant, Frontier, Jet Blue, Spirit, Sun, etc.
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Originally Posted by ChronicFatigue
(Post 3629515)
That's not how it works.
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Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629216)
I’d like to make it to American eventually.
AA’s entire goal is to keep you at their partner regional as long as possible. As stated multiple times, if you want to get to AA years and years before your “flow”, go to a Delta or United regional carrier. |
Originally Posted by planejoe
(Post 3629738)
AA’s entire goal is to keep you at their partner regional as long as possible. As stated multiple times, if you want to get to AA years and years before your “flow”, go to a Delta or United regional carrier.
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Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629735)
How does it work?
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Originally Posted by Got160s
(Post 3629367)
It does appear to be so.
But what happens if I get a type rating for a 320 and they no longer need pilots for that type rating? The Airbus 320 and 737 type ratings are the most versatile/valuable in the world if you wanna look at the type rating and fleet size as some sort of job security. The CRJ and Embraer small series aircraft is out of production. Meaning the fleet will only dwindle down as airplanes are parked. The regionals don't have any job security by way of a large fleet/abundant operators. Airbus 320neo series still have thousands of orders (8k?), most still to be built and delivered, and thousands of orders will be made in the future. 737max is similar, with thousands (5k?) to be built, but possibility that new orders will go to a new type. |
Originally Posted by TwoDaysBehind
(Post 3630835)
The CRJ and Embraer small series aircraft is out of production. Meaning the fleet will only dwindle down as airplanes are parked. The regionals don't have any job security by way of a large fleet/abundant operators..
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Originally Posted by FlyinCat
(Post 3630867)
Not entirely true. We have Embraer 175s in our fleet (YX) made as recently as December 2022.
But yeah, right now today for employability A320 and B727 are the types to have worldwide. And of the two, the 320 is probably the best unless you aspire to SWA or Alaska, since upgrade to the 330 and 350 aircraft is pretty easy with minimal additional training. |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3631130)
I think by Embraer “small series” they were referring to the E-145 and its earlier regional turboprop predecessors. The E-170-190 type rating is valuable not only for the 175 but also for the 190s and would require only differences training for the newer E-2 series, although those are sort of scope limited in the US.
But yeah, right now today for employability A320 and B727 are the types to have worldwide. And of the two, the 320 is probably the best unless you aspire to SWA or Alaska, since upgrade to the 330 and 350 aircraft is pretty easy with minimal additional training. |
Originally Posted by FlyinCat
(Post 3630867)
Not entirely true. We have Embraer 175s in our fleet (YX) made as recently as December 2022.
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Originally Posted by TransWorld
(Post 3631171)
B727, not B737? Typo?
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