Airsupport

yeah from what i have read everyone is right. its hard for me to explain but easy for me to picture,, ya know?? when the engines are fired up they are pushing from the back of the plane above the cg. the plane will try and rotate around its cg. and since the engines are above the cg, on the tail, the tail wants to go up, while the nose wants to go down essentially trying to spin the aircraft on its lattitudnal axis. its just the opposite on all boeing aircraft (except the 727). when they stall the nose wants to pitch up and the tail down because the engines are below the cg of the aircraft. could explain it better if i had a whiteboard and a model... hahaha

as far as getting the pusher your sim partner did 1 of 2 things wrong. he either pulled back to fast on the stick, which the plane will recognize as an imminent stall, or went above 7.5 degrees with the shaker engaged.

the best way to do it is get shaker, set max thrust and then hold the nose right at 5 degrees. as the plane gains speed and energy it will take less back pressure to maintain 5 degrees nose up. it can all be done within 50 feet.

ghilis101

the engines on the RJ are ever so slightly tilted so the thrust actually goes back and down, that design is a lot more pronounced on a DC-9 or MD-8X , Im sure that adds to the nose down pitch. The #2 engine on the DC-10 was like that as well, and that had a pretty big tilt to it.

I know they tell you not to trim when doing an approach to stall, but if you partner is having finesse problems, consider the use of trim to keep off the yoke until they get the hang of how the airplane responds.

Blackhawk

Maybe someone can find the accident summary, but I can't. I believe one of the ones lost during certification was during stalls. The recovery chute did not deploy if I remember correctly.

machaf

Try holding down the AP DISC button. You'll avoid getting the pusher.

I know if you do this on the ground you do get a STALL FAIL caution message. I'm not sure what happens in flight.

FlyingGuy

The engines do push the nose down on power application. Its a little at first then a whole lot as the engines spool up. The key is proper seating position so you can hold the yoke with your elbows on the arm rests. This helps prevent over controlling. At the shaker DO NOT release back pressure! This is the hard part as most of us learned to release pressure to break a stall. Hold the nose at 7.5 degrees. This takes a fair amount of effort. As the power comes in keep applying back pressure or the nose will drop. Its OK to go back into the shaker. You shouldn't get the pusher unless you are rough on the controls or yank the nose above 10 degrees. Once the nose stops trying to go down watch your altitude and VSI or you will shoot through your altitude. Let the nose go back to about 3 degrees and relax your grip on the yoke to make minor adjustments in the final stage of recovery.

RJ900

Great advises. One thing though: I am hearing 7.5 degrees and 5 degrees nose up during the recovery portion when the pitch down tendency occurs. The question is, what is the exact number of degrees that you should use?

Again, thanks for great inputs!

FlyingGuy

I suppose there is no "exact" number. I was taught 7.5 by both Pinnacle and CAE instructors. I did have one instructor demo a recovery where he held the nose at 10 degrees. The shaker will usually start at about 10 degrees - he just held it right there throughout and never got the pusher. I'd say that would be too big a challenge for a new guy though.

Spooledup

Here's my technique as taught by a couple of different instructors and check airmen:

Watch your pitch attitude as you approach the stall. Since you're at flaps 20 and in a 20 degree bank, this takes a decent scan. Try to get the pitch attitude into your scan though. When you get the shaker and roll the wings level, hold the pitch attitude at whatever it was when the shaker activated. As stated by FlyingGuy, lock your elbows on the arm rests and maintain this pitch attitude. I have had no problem just pushing the thrust most of the way up without much finesse and letting the Non Flying Pilot fine tune it. As the thrust comes up, the nose will want to pitch down. Just using your wrists, add back pressure. If you hold the yoke with your elbows locked on the arm rests without adding this backpressure, you won't hold the pitch attitude. Using this technique will cause you to lose no more than 25 feet or so and makes for a nice maneuver.

texaspilot76

7.5 works good, try not to exceed 10. If you exceed 10 you will most likely get a secondary shaker. It took me a while to get a feel for the stalls. Try placing your elbows on the armrests and use pressure and small corrections to maintain the slight nose high attitude required for recovery. Thats what worked for me.

LifeNtheFstLne

The attempt to deep stall the CL-65 during initial certification resulted in a hull-loss and the deaths of some very experienced Bombardier pilots. Roll that beeyotch instead.