Sim Time Toward TT
 

Ok people I keep getting conflicting opinions on this. The 50 Hours that you can use for your commercial ticket in the simulator (Frasca 141 etc). Do most airlines allow you to use this time towards your total time. The reason being I have about 420 TT and 60ME and am building about 8 hrs multi a week. If I can use that 50 hours that the FAA allows towards the commercial I would be at 470TT and 60ME. I live in Fort Wayne IN so I'm holding out to apply to ASA and Comair because I'm getting close to their times and I can commute from FWA. I'm also going to consider any reputible place that I can commute to. So any ideas would be great. Thanks everyone for info ahead of time.

apply now, you will most likely get an interview

Get some more experience (5-6 months) and Skywest out of ORD. Skywest does those flights from FWA-ORD so it would be an easy commute if you chose to fly. Upgrade here is at 13 months if you are concerned about that. You'll need the extra hours anyways no matter which airline you choose because of total time mins for captain. Good luck

I am pretty sure the answer to that is "no." I don't believe Frasca time counts toward TT. If it did, People wound not rent twins when they could just build twin time in a frasca 142. The only kind of sim time that counts would be full motion sims...Even with that I am not sure how it is logged but, I am 90% sure that Frasca 141, stuff does not count...Some of them don't even have a computer screen! Are you an U of Illinois guy? Hope that helps. Also, how are you building 8 hours of ME a week? MEI?

Sim
 

Hi. I have about 10hrs Level D Full Motion time.
Level D FM is considered to be like real airplane
You can log it.......If you don't have a type it is (Turbine, MEL, Dual Rec.,landings IAP currency).
Also can use it twords TT

I'm talking specificaly about the 50hours of sim allowed for the commercial. I know after the 50hours it don't mean poop, I'm surprised it doesn't count since the FAA counts it to get your commercial, and no not a univ. of ILL. guy. Went to Indiana State and I'm building multi time because I'm an airport manager and we have a lot of part 91 corporate flights in and out so i'm building some time with them in a seneca V and a C421 and then I have a friend who flies for delta that has a big ugly apache... but it has to big spiny things on it so it counts. So I'm lucky I've found a couple of good mentors to help me through the first 100hrs multi. I'm building my TT through instructing the little that is around here in this small indiana town.

Alright, Illinois is in Champaign-Urbana, and that is where Frasca is based so they decided to sink a bunch of money into Frasca sims. (No opinion either way.) As jetplayer said, level D "Yeah," anything else "Ney." That is also what I was told too, so it is probably true. As far as the 50 hours go, thats messed up and I agree with you. If its good enough to get you a rating why not TT? Imagine that, somthing governed by the FAA, is hard to understand, has a lot of grey area, and makes no sense!

No airlines do not count FTD or SIM time. On the application, it will ask for total time in aircraft...

sim time does not equal flight time, regardless of level of the sim. it is simulator or FTD time.

only time in real airplanes counts toward the total time airlines look for

Yeah thats what I figured I was just hoping for that 50 hour boost to get the the mins. I'll just have to be patient. I wish I would have thought about these things when I was working on my commercial. Oh-well thats what I get for having a passion for aviation. Should have been an engineer! :D

Frasca time is NEVER considered airplane time. It can count INSTEAD of some of the required flight time for ratings, but that does not make it flight time.


Level D is technically flight time as far as aircraft training requirements go, but it normally DOES NOT count towards flight minimums at real airlines. I know your school maybe told you otherwise, but they lied. RJ sim time might give you a slight competetive edge, but nowhere enough to be worth the cost (unless it was free).

Don't use any sim or FTD when calculating airline mins...they normally specify flight time in fixed-wing aircraft.

AWAC: No
XJT: No (sim time does not equal total time, and DO NOT use it for multi time)

You low time guys just need to go out and build time and experience the old fashioned way...which is any way you can and stop worry about sim time, safety pilot time, etc. If you're getting hired with less than 1000TT it's already a shortcut.:rolleyes:

In the FAR 61.1 it says nothing about not being able to log FTD time as total time. I am going through this same thing in getting my INST and COMM. I know that after 40 or 50 hours it doesn't count, but it does up to then as long as you have an instructor in the FTD with you. Why would they say you can do up to 50 hours of FTD time towards your COMM if you can't count it as TT? I think it counts.

You can log level D because it replicates the ENTIRE cockpit environment of an actual aircraft type. The Frasca simulates a Frasca, which doesn't exist. I could even log my full-motion sim time on the KC-135, since the circuit-breaker panel on the back wall isn't replicated which dequalifies it from level D.

NO, no , and no even if it is level D!!!

You can log anything you want to. We are just trying to save you the trouble of being sent home from an interview for claiming flight time you don't have. Hint: The airlines are interested in actual airplane experience; they don't care what the FAR's say about it. Actually their websites are usually pretty clear on that..."Fixed Wing Airplane Time" means exactly that and does NOT include sim, FTD, helicopter, blimp, or the space shuttle (which is a glider).

61.129 says you can CREDIT 50 hours of sim/FTD towards the commercial requirements. That means you can use it INSTEAD of actual flight time...that does not mean it IS actual flight time.

You can also interpret the FAR's any way you like, they are often ambiguous. Unfortunately, so can the FAA. I have found that the best way to interpret the FAR's is find an AC or an FAA legal opinion that explains the issue in question.

Look at any guys resume that does this for a living...check out the total time block. Add single engine hours and multi-engine hours together(along with glider, helo, etc., if rated). The sum is the total time. Nobody cares about sim time when it comes to pilot hiring. Does anyone even put it on the resume? I never did.

"Why would they say you can do up to 50 hours of FTD time towards your COMM if you can't count it as TT? I think it counts."

See Rickair's post. It doesn't count. TT is commonly considered "flight time" and an FTD doesn't fly. I've always thought the 50 hour rule was a stretch. I own a couple ATC610's and have instructed many IFR pilots in them. They are usually good for 10 hours of teaching, maybe 20 hours in a stretch, but no way you'll get any good use out of it for 50 hours.

Amen!!! what happened to actually wanting to get flight time and experience and as many ratings as one could?! I can understand wanting to get on as soon as possible but not wanting to get on with as little experience as possible. Not necessarily the guys on this thread but on some others the attitude seemed to be "why do i need hours they're not required. low timers unite" to actually aspire to be less qualified would make me nauseous.:confused:

Again.... AMEN!! Rick's post as well.

it's not about getting hired or building time, it's about training towards your INST and COMM. You are allowed 50 hours of sim time towards your ratings, it's allowed. Why would I choose to pay 100/hour when I can pay 30/hour for FTD time towards my COMM rating?

That $30 an hour you are paying is towards a Flight Training Device. This is NOT A SIMULATOR. There are some pretty distinct differences. Any time you "log" in a Frasca 142 does NOT COUNT towards your total time, nor does it count towards ANYTHING for your Commercial rating. It can however SUPPLEMENT some of the "Instrument" time you need to get your Instrument rating (but not total time, XC time, etc.).

P.S. - By now, I'm assuming you've figured out there's a BIG difference between Flight Training Device and Simulator.

Well now that you've edited your post, I can retract my statement. Next time don't be so high and mighty when somebody else is simply trying to get some information.

Relax Leo. You asked a question and you got several answers. I don't see any reason for the flame. FTD time isn't "flight time" and flight time is what is commonly considered "total time". You can log whatever you want, however you want. It's your logbook. It's just that if you stray outside the norms of how things are done, or the FAR's, you could have some serious explaining to do not too far down the road.

You can use a FTD for 50 hours towards a part 61 Commercial (must be with an instructor, not solo). On the day of your checkride, your logbook would show 200 hours "total flight time" and 50 hours "FTD (ground trainer) instruction". That meets the requirements of part 61 to take the commercial checkride.

you can use up to 50hrs in an approved sim or FTD toward the mins required for the Commercial certificate. they don't count as TT, but you get credit for them.

Part 61.129 I(i)

Pilot754! You got a new name!

He edited his post, but was originally a bit harsh towards my lack of knowledge on this matter. It's all good. I actually talked to a few instructors at my FBO today and they confirmed exactly what you have just said on here. It makes sense now. I was under the impression that they would only look at TT for COMM requirements. It is clear now, thank you very much. :D