Mesa Pilots
 

Do Mesa pilots ever have problems jumpseating like I have heard many times about GO Jet pilots. I know everyone hates Mesa and everyone says it's a terrible place to work, but do pilots hate the airline and management exclusively or do they also dislike the pilots for working there? Is working for Mesa as bad as working for Go Jets as far as the way pilots from other airlines will think of you and treat you. Will a captain board for a major airline look at someone from Mesa different than someone who flew for SkyWest if they have both flown the same aircraft for the same amount of time.

I'd never deny a MAG pilot my jump. They gave up a lot to keep their flying in house and I'd gladly buy them a beer because of the BS they have to put up with from JO. But still, friends don't let friends work for JO.

MAG’s current situation is completely different from that of BlowJet!

One jumped with us yesterday. Welcome aboard I say.

Spot on, man.

What they said. Mesa guys took it on the chin to get rid of an alter ego that was being used to whipsaw the pilot group over there.

I'm not anti Mesa pilot, I'm anti Mesa Management. The pilots are welcome abord any time.

As the above have said, I have never had any problem jumpseating and everyone I have met doing so has been very nice.

Thanks all for that.

Mesa pilots hate their company more than other airline pilots hate their company. We're brothers and sisters in commiserating!

I have an interesting Mesa story...
I was commuting from STL-ORF through CLT. The CLT-ORF leg i rode up front on a CRJ900 due to no open seats in the back. Both pilots had 4 stripes and I thought to myself that it must be OE or something... cool. It actually turns out that the captain in the right seat was junior manned to the right seat and was even senior to the captain in the left seat... that absolutely blew my mind! Junior manning to the Right seat? Has anyone else heard of this?

I have never personally had a Mesa jumpseater, but welcome aboard!

I've seen it at both TSA and CHQ.

It happens at SKW as well, most of the time its new CA’s waiting for IOE who ride the right seat at 150% CA pay. I had a friend who was waiting for CA IOE and flew an 82 hour month as FO. His normal CA pay was $60 an hour and he was still paid his monthly guarantee seeing that all his FO flying was above and beyond his reserve pay, so here's how his month broke down:

Jr Manned: 82 hrs X ($60 X 150%) = $7,380

Plus:

Guarantee: 75 hrs X $60 = $4,500

$7,380 + $4,500 + $425 (per diem) = $12,305

NICE MONTH!


P.S. He couldn’t sitting reserve because he hadn’t finish IOE.

No, Capt's do a right seat landing at their PT/PC that quals them for the seat. It probably wasn't a check airman in the right seat.

Slice hit it on the head. I know Mesa just has you do a T/O and Landing from the right seat in the sim and this qualifies them for the right seat. As far as the guy being senior to the other, a CA's seniority doesn't matter if it is the other guys line. If both are RSV then the seniority wins the left seat. Although at least they are getting double time for the JA. This means that guy in the right seat was making at least $68 x 2= $136 an hour because he would have to be at least 4 or 5 year to be senior to that other 900 CA.
So as one can see it costs a lot of money to run an airline poorly. I might drag out of bed to ride right seat for 136 an hour too. :D

Keep in mind that Mesa pilots are ALPA and gojet were nothing / teamsters now. However, Mesa probably does have one of the worst ALPA contracts out their thanks to the whipsawing of their CEO.

Hopefully Mesa ALPA is getting ready for negotiations that start in September. Support is needed... go after it guys. Block or better or burn it down.

I have a feeling they're after quite a bit more than just block or better.

And the Airlines still cry "POOR MOUTH," paying feabile wages to new FO's.

Good Deal for him though. I bet Accounting saw that and FREAKED! "Get him on IOE NOW!!!"

No, it happens all the time here. As long as the flights don't get canceled they'll plug and play when needed. But it's sad; if they offered more than $19 an hr then they wouldn't have this problem.

Good Day!

I am going to show my newness...what exactly does the above comment mean?

Thanks,

Eric

Alright, we'll see if I've got this straight...

Block time is the 'expected' flight time for a leg. Block or better means that if you complete the flight in less than the expected time, you still get paid for the block. However, if you get delayed and the flight takes longer....you get paid for what you flew.

From my feeble understanding, Mesa doesn't pay more than block, even if you get delayed...

Any corrections?
-Ben

Actually it's worse, MAG doesn't pay more than Historic Block which is the average over time. Most times that's much less than block seeing that block takes into account expected delays such as 15th in line at rush hour, flying the full route including DP's, SID's and approaches.

Block or better means you get the higher of Historic Block and Actual Block.

Block is basically from when the brake is dropped for push back to when the brake is set after taxi in.

I'm having trouble understanding this as well. I always assumed that it was block or better. So when you say historic block does that mean they take a 5 day trip, for example, and calculate the average for those 5 days?

day 1: 7hrs
day 2: 5hrs
day 3: 8hrs
day 4: 4hrs
day 5: 8hrs

grand total = 32 hrs
average = 6.4 hrs/day

I don't think my arithmatic is making sense to even me but I just want to get a general idea of how average block and historic block works. Gracias.

The historic block is not by day, it is per each flight leg. They take the historic "average" of the time to fly between city pairs and that's what you get paid (only if the flight completes).

The average is artificially low, because the company "adjusts" block times that have significant delays. This keeps the historic average low and also keeps the pilot's weekly, monthly, and annual flight times lower than actual.

If you work at mesa you MUST keep your own written record of block times to ensure that you don't exceed flight time limits.

Exactly, Historic Block is a per leg basis; it's the historic average time it takes to fly from A to B. That's all you get paid at MAG, so if you hold, go missed approach and vectored around from another, go around, divert, 41st inline or what ever it maybe; you don't get paid for any overages. If you like working for free then MAG is right for you!

THIS IS HUGE; it's why MAG has the lowest labor cost in the industry and it costs their pilots an enormous about of pay that is rightfully theirs.

After all it was JO who said, “As long as there’s a stack of resumes on my desk then pilots are overpaid!” What a leader, if you want to follow someone into "hell."

Are you sure about the math here? Don't know the SKW contract but it would seem that 82 hours x 1.5 would be what your friend would get paid without the re-addition of the guarantee (75)you figured in...that would be getting paid twice in addition to JR pay. Nice but sounds too good to be true.

This is exactly how it works; it’s simple so pay attention. HE WAS NOT ELLIAGLE TO SIT RESERVE BECAUSE HE HAD NOT COMPLETED IOE and agreed to fly open time during his wait! So any flying he does is in addition to his monthly guarantee. Seeing that it was all Jr man time it was paid out at 150% above and beyond our guarantee. This is our agreement with Mgmnt and this is how all open time is paid, even for reservist.

If you are sitting reserve and pick up flying it does not count toward breaking guarantee, instead it is paid above and beyond (in addition too). BTW, I as well as everyone else at SKW takes advantage if these policies. It's one of the many reasons why we are among, if not the, highest paid.

I'm not certain, but I did hear that volunteer flying for those awaiting training goes on top of guarantee. Otherwise why volunteer? (you cannot be junior assigned at SKW). We're not at mesa anymore, lol

No, we're not! :D

I'm glad I asked about this because it was one part of the MAG contract that I was not sure on. I have no intentions of working for Mesa but I wanted to get a crystal clear understanding of why it is such a horrible place to work. The way they calculate block is the number one reason not to work there, at least for myself. I don't know how the MAG guys put up with it.

JO is one evil SOB. I hope karma catches up with him some day. Anyway, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.

Sadly, it's not the worst reason not to be there...

Yeah, I know. But it's bad enough for me to say no.

Spot On! I have to agree. I would put down the red carpet for any MAG pilot that wasn't on the Freedumb A list. ;) B and C listers are always welcome!!!

Mesa historic block times are called segment times.

Those segment times are the six month historic average of that leg. If you push out and have to taxi for a four hour tour of LGA and then fly to PHL. You'll only get the 1.0 segment credit and not the five hours it will take you to actually perform the trip.

The Mesa people I know have one goal - fix it or burn it down. They are gathering the kindling now.

JO is setting up the China deal as a whipsaw. He's going to be moving CRJ's to China and establish flying there. Rumor has it that Mesa could lose a codeshare by November. In all honesty, that would probably "right-size" them for what they are currently undertaking.

Either way - Friends don't let friends fly for JO....at least not with this contract.....

I spent 9 years and 9 months at Mesa. The conditions they are currently working under far surpass the shizzit I experienced.

Godspeed to the YV crews and get a great contract...!!!

Enjoyed the Post, bustinmins...Thanks!!

Yes, it's also happening quite a bit on the Freedom side out of ATL. One CA I know (about 6 spots from the bottom) recently upgraded and is still spending 2/3 of his time right seat.

Bastards coudn't clear the runway in time yesterday, and I had to do a go around at LAX.

Was it scary?:rolleyes:

Let me get this right - Mesa pilots are "bastards" because you had to go around because the Mesa guys missed a turn? ROFLMAO!!! Personally, I'm happy you had to go around. It sounds like you needed some humility training.

Jump off that high horse before someone else knocks you off of it.

My .02

Ok, I don't know what's going on but I've brought my 9mm to the fight... anyone want to have a crack at me?

I've brought my M1 Abrams and Bergmann MP18 to the fight. Run if you can. :D

Grow a set. Go arounds happen, so get very used to them.

Indeed. I can't count the number of times I've seen go arounds at SNA and LGB, 99% of them airliners. It happens and will happen again. I've been asked to go around a dozen times because of congestion on the pavment.