320kts below 10,000' - legal?
 

Yeah yeah, you're all saying, "Pfff, what kind of question is that? 'Course it's not legal!" Well, what about inter-island Hawaii? Where exactly do the FARs apply? And for that matter, where does ICAO apply?

There is plenty of water outside the 12-mile offshore rule while flying between the islands. Here's a fun scenario: Ask for an early descent, blast down to 500', and buzz the cruise ships at 320 knots (slow down by 12 miles offshore, of course.)

Try it at 500 knots it's even more fun!

sounds like fun

It's legal if you need it for operational necessity ;)

500KIAS?

That's not much above flap speed.

Arriving at JFK one morning around 6:45am NY Approach told us "You guys are out over the water, your the only one out there... keep the speed up" as we descended through 10,000. We kinda got what he meant, but since it wasn't a definite "you can maintain above 250 below 10" clearance on the tape we kept it to 250 just to be safe. When he handed us off he asked our speed and said "I was expecting 350 not 250." Of course I was kicking myself we didnt take advantage of that.

The airspace should be clearly notated on your charts.

If you hit a bird at 320 or 335, it is going to leave a mark.

You are right, we often keep our speed up below 10,000' when we go to the islands. Aloha and Hawaiian take full advantage of it too. Birds rarly are above 5,000' but if you hit one, ouch.

You are talking about when a 747 requires 258kts for flaps up after takeoff. But the 12 mile rule does not require the ' necessity' when arriving into JFK from over water and the Hawaiian islands. LAX has the Channel islands that prevent the use of the 12 mile rule.

It is quite common to exceed 250 in Europe. ATC will often approve it if you ask for "high speed." It's OK in Canada also if cleared above a certain altitude, (7000?). It says so on the SID.

Supposedly windshields are designed to take a medium bird at 250 kts, and that's why the 10K limit was originally applied. Don't know this for sure though.

There's no flap speed I know of in the F-16.

they dont just approve high speed in europe, they assign it. ive seen them assign 300kts on a downwind for an ILS in amsterdam

and there's the problem w/ the erj...you'll get the "hi steve" alert above 250, and 8,000...yuck...now where's that aural warning circuit breaker.

I was just being funny, it didn't have anything to do with the true discussion at hand of flying between islands, you're right. Thank you.

I don't know if they are still doing it or not.... but, for a time Houston airpspace had a waiver and would assign > 250 below 10k. I know I did it all the time.
Stick

We had ATC request us for high speed below 10000 going into MIA from off shore. It seemed to be a regular thing.

I wasn't referring to the LGPOS....excuse me, lawndart...sorry, Fighting Falcon.

Big German airports require 210+/-10 to 12 track miles and 160+/-10 to the OM. When it's busy and no one is in front of you they may assign high airspeeds to the OM but I've received and heard plenty "maintain Min Clean for traffic seperation." It all has to do with getting everyone doing about the same speed so things don't back up and it seems to work out well. Now if they could apply that philosophy to the autobahn driving the stop-go-stop-go-trafficjam-go-stop-drivecrazyfast-trafficjam reality that is the autobahn may be fixed.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123020265
This happened to a great buddy of mine. Hopefully the link works. I can't find any pictures, but essentially, the bird blew a hole through the radome, and the radome pretty much exploded and took off a bunch of AoA vanes and half of the pitot tubes. The flight controls lost all AoA and erroneously sensed a stall, so the stall warning stick pusher tried to command nose down. Which isn't a good thing at 300 feet agl.

Anyways, he did a great job getting the jet back in one piece.

Sorry man, born too late to fly the Rhino...at least you had room to store your walker. How old are you? :D

Atc can not approve a speed above 250kts below 10. If they do and you exceed the speed you are in violation. It does not matter that they told you to do it.

That's the only place in US airspace where ATC could authorize >250 below 10K (for a civilian).

you guys need a hobbie

I wouldn't believe this if I wasn't in the jumpseat at the time...but coming in to MCO crossing over the shoreline by DAB in a MD80...somewhere between 10K and 8K...hit a bird or a terradactyl or a 152....I dunno...but it left a hell of a stain on the FO's windscreen...

Mr. Lear bragged his jet would take it and wanted to sit in the seat. They lawyers talked him out of it. Then they fired a frozen chicken at it and it took the window right off along with the headrest where his head woulda been.

Out in the desert by Mexico it's very common to see large amounts of buzzards in thermals at 8K+. Never hit one though. They outran the 172. However when they tried to hydraseed the airport during dove season you were off your game if you didn't bag a limit on short final lol.

yea it was an operational test and was noted in the jepps. i believe it has since expired. kiah

http://dotlibrary1.specialcollection...ot_aircraftacc

If you can paste the above website and scroll down to the bottom it explains why the 10k/250 airspeed limitation was imposed. It's under the year 1960 UAL and TWA midair. It was a UAL DC8 and TWA 1049 that crashed above NYC. Hope this helps.