Mesaba vs. American Eagle
 

535T 65ME (CFI/CFII/MEI) - 4/yr degree - Currently flying skydivers

I've been reading all the threads on these two regionals because I'm particularly interested in both. I live in Madison, WI and have lived in MN.

I know it all comes down to what I want to do, but I'm really fretting on which airline to choose between these two. I have friends at Mesaba and I know friends that are applying at AE. Basically, life is as good as it can be for any starting 1st year FO at either place. However, long-term is more of a concern for me.

I would love to fly for AE, but I'm really worried about overall upgrade times. My buddy (25/yr old) doesn't seem very concerned about that and the move to AE appears to be more of a QOL issue since AE is practically in his backyard. For me (34/yr old, married) I think I should be concerned about when I might be able to upgrade.

I have no issues with either regional other than that. Right now, I have questions about communting....I suppose I could easily commute out of KMSN easily, but having not actually done that, I don't know how rough it would be until then.

My wife is good with either decision I make, but I guess I'm concerned about the decision in the long run. It doesn't seem like there's much hope of making it AA, but at my age...a long career at the regionals, or a charter company after building up some time doesn't seem like a bad idea either. NW is going through alot of changes (heck, they all are), but I'm really confused about what decision is best for me in my situation. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd be more willing to hedge my bet on a regional that could assure me that an upgrade to CA won't take longer than 3 years.

What do you think? Thanks.

I think you need more total and multi time.

I realize the listed limitations are 800TT and 100ME, but there have been others hired around my time.

I'm also not going to apply until the end of August or September, at which time I've projected my TT to be between 600 and 700.

Is it true that AE FO's are sitting reserve for 6-12 months? That certainly would affect my decision as well.

Thanks.

I think the newhires with lower time also have CRJ or some other training.

Not sure about reserve, it depends on your domicile, which they let you pick after being hired.

Some of the newbies have walked their resumes into someone on the inside who has told them..."when you're ready, call me".

That is the situation my buddy is in with AE and he offered to walk my resume in at the same time. I'm not too concerned about it, because the worst thing that can happen is they turn me down. Big deal.

My buddy at Mesaba got moved to DTW for the first 3 months after he passed his IOE, but life is "as good as can be expected" until they reposition him at MSP. That stuff doesn't bother me so much as sitting reserve for 12 months. Mesaba seems like a good fit for me, but the fact that NW is having so many issues worries me. At the same time, I don't want to sit in the right seat for 10 years.

Well if you are looking strictly at upgrade, mesaba seems to be better AT THE PRESENT. Who knows what could happen when YOU get hired. There are a lot of 6-7-8 year FO's at AE, whereas the junior capt at mesaba is 3 right now. But as I stated, this shows what the trend was 7 years ago for AE, and 3 years ago for Mesaba. Someone hired today could see 2, or could see 10, you never know what could happen. AE's upgrades are slowly coming down, but nobody knows how fast or how much... Apply to both, and see who calls first, neither would be a bad option

1) You have the times now (or at least very very close) for Mesaba.
2) You will probably sit reserve for a month or two, three tops at Mesaba.
3) There is a reasonable shot at upgrade (as always, SUBJECT TO CHANGE) at Mesaba in the 2-3 year range.

I don't know much about Eagle. From what I've heard it is a decent place to work (except for the upgrade delays, which could also get better, of course).

Mesaba is a solidly OK place to work, and we could be on our way back to being a good place again. I know it is small praise, but there are plenty of places far worse to work at then Mesaba. We have pretty good work rules, somewhat lousy FO pay (although it is actually OK for Saab FO pay but terrible for Jet FO pay), and currently brisk seniority movement, hopefully keeping your FO time fairly short.

Good luck on your choice.

I'm in the same boat too, don't want to sit reserve and have a long upgrade.

Determine your priorities among these factors:

1) Where you'd be living/based and commuting issues
2) Pay/Work rules
3) Equipment
4) Industry reputation
5) Expected career progression/upgrade/where people go when they leave
6) How well others like working for each company
7) How well you think the company will fare in this dog eat dog world (usually anybody's guess, but use your crystal ball if you have it)

See which one does the best among your top priorities. Remember what is right for others is not necessarily right for you. Good luck.

Reserve in ORD on the ERJ for AE is currently at about 4months. We are short staffed everywhere, so I dont think this will get much worse.

ORD is Eagle's jr base, I would not be suprised if you held a composite line out of training. Four months would be the absolute max. I'm holding a line in BOS six months out of training. I expect the current trend of reduced reserve times to continue. I've had several requests for PVDs (personal day off) denied due to staffing, and we're better manned in BOS than they are in ORD. ORD is ridiculously understaffed.

Upgrade times are still outrageous, still seven years today, but will drop to four to five years overnight (no new hires 9/2001-1/2004; most junior CA awardee has 5/2000 seniority, and 285 pilots are junior to him to the 1/2004 class). Also, management has decided that one of Eagle's cost problems is all the CA's are too senior. They are actively trying to help the top 25% of the seniority list to go to some other airline - UPS, FedEx, WN, wherever... One thing about AMR management, once they set a target, they are very smart and/or determined to achieve that goal.

QOL at Eagle is quite good today. Pay isn't as abyssmal as some places, work rules are ok, scheduling isn't half bad, reserve is minimal, and there is light at the end of the tunnel for upgrades.

And anyone is fooling themself if they think anyone in the top 500 are going ANYWHERE, accept MAYBE flowing through. These guys are at max pay making 100K/ yr. and holding weekends off. Of the next 500, I'll bet less than 50% are thinking of moving on. They too are making close to six figures, and holding at least one weekend day off. I'm not trying to discourage you, but most of the guys willing to leave will be in the 900+ range. Unfortunately, many of them don't have the requisite PIC.

I've been at Eagle 7+ years and am happy with my choice. Mesaba and Air Wisconsin were my second and third choices, and the last few years would've been miserable at either (for me). Your situation is undoubtedly different. I can just now hold prop CA, although I've not taken it yet. Learn everything you can and explore all your options (what about Compass?) and cross your fingers! Welcome to the circus some call a career!

If youre thinking about going with Mesaba, I wouldnt recommend holding off on turning in your resume. I started indoc on Monday, after about 2 months from the your hired call to start date. So if the reason you're holding off is to gain more experience, you'll have plenty of time to get it while you're waiting.

What?! I thought this was a hobby!! LoL because hobbies actually cost you money ::rolls eyes::

So here it the run down on MAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSaba, as the DTW controllers like to call us.
1) Pilot Group exceeding 750. By the time you get hired and in class probably around 900, which means that you will be coming in on the tail end of the hiring, therefore probably not light speed upgrade, you will have a lot of people in front of you now
2) The evil empire (start darth vader theme song) MAIR is still in existance, and could return to slash your paycheck in five years
Now the positives:
3) Snap back with 36 new plans on property
4) Contract negotiations in I believe 2009 (RJ correct me if I am wrong, havent looked at the contract in a while)
5) Positive growth, and a large fleet of pure profit aircraft (Saabs make money, other than that, its about all they do) However if you are going to fly one invest in a hearing aide company, trust me you'll need it
6) Saab so loud, cant hear flight attendant complain about how loud it is
7) No need to spend money on a health club, Saab has a built in sauna, called "any row, any seat"
8) Injured? No need to bring an ice pack to work, just go preflight during Nov. thru Apr.
9) Probably one of the most experienced groups of regional pilots around (newest upgrade 3 years, prior to that 7 years)

I know nothing about eagle other than what I have heard here which is suspect. If you are fortunate enough to MSP or DTW, its an easy commute, flights out of Madison each way.
Good luck.