Would you hire
 

I was talking to a guy who had an interview at an unmentioned airline several weeks ago. I asked him how it went and etc. and he gave me this example and said it went good.

He was asked if a captain was not using proper SOP, what would you do as a new FO? He immediately responded report him to the chief pilot.

Then the interviewer said, now I am that pilot, what are you going to say to me or how will you act around me. His reponse "Want to go have a beer?"

Call me crazy but there are a several things I would do prior to reporting him to the chief pilot because there are too many variables.

But then the repsonse with the beer? if in the interviewers shoes, would you hire this guy?

he said it got some laughs and wnet over well, but I can not imagine that

I think the interviewee is a few nuts short of being a fruit cake! That is outrageous!

I would not report him... immediately... I would try to resolve the issue man to man. Talk it over and explain why not using the SOP's makes ME uncomfortable. I would try to resolve the issue before it gets out of hand. At the end of that line I would probably avoid getting myself paired with that individual.

In response to the second question... If I was called out for reporting someone I would man up and take responsibility for my actions and not try to sideskirt the question.

I think this is a classic example of what not to do in an interview.... but then again I too may be a nut short of being a fruitcake!

One poor answer in an interview probably isn't going to determine if he's hired or not, but instead the overall package is what makes an applicant.

That said, there are certainly better answers than "report him to the CP" and "want to go have a beer?". (Although I like beer... the next question I would ask is "what kind of beer?" ;) Better answer it correctly too!)

With regards to the questions- as an FO, your best bet would be to ask the captain about his procedure out of the cockpit or once you land. Bring it up in a non-confrontational way. Such as "hey I was wondering why you do such and such" A lot of time, there is a lot of leeway in the SOP to allow for each CA's personal preferences and modes of operation. If that doesn't work, you can never go wrong by saying that you'd politely point out the way the book says to do it (in a non-confrontational way).

If that doesn't work, the next step I'd take is to approach the union professional standards committee and ask if they would talk to the CA on my behalf. There are plenty of other ways to get the point across before you go to management and create a potentially uncomfortable situation (particularly when you get paired up with the same captain again down the road).

I had a scenario like this yesterday in my interview......

"Your captain is not following the checklist properly and skipping over items, what would you do"

My response was that I would remind the captain of what items we seemed to be missing and offer to handle the checklist myself to ensure nothing is missed. I said that we have a checklist for a reason and it is important not to miss any items, as small as they may be, which might have an impact on safety later in the flight. If the captain continued to break policy and I could not solve the problem, I would mention what was happening to our CP because I would be concerned that the captains actions could be affecting the safety of our operations.

Then he said - "Ok so you reported him and the CP said there was no cause for any disciplinary action and you were scheduled to fly with that captain the next day...how would you handle it?"

I stated that I would go about my duties as normal and try to resolve any conflict the captain may have with me.

I don't think they want to hear that you would immediately run to the CP and rat out your fellow crew members. But also that you would not allow regs to be broken and do nothing about it....

(I don't think it sounded quite that good when I was saying it out loud but I think they got the point.)

so many variables, what sort of SOP did he break? is he a new hired captain, or a long time captain upgrading to a larger plane and having interfernce from his last plane?

agreed with the above responses

Its a sticky wicket for sure, when I flew 130's it usually wasnt a problem as procedure is something that is beat in you from day one of UPT.... but I have had that problem now and again, and usually a nice easy conversation with the AC would clear things up. In the airline world I found that every CA had his way of doing things... some straight by the book... others would decry... "when this was still "Command Airways"...we did it like this and I dont care except on checkrides..... generally I'd go with the flow unless safety was compromised and to be honest the few times a capt wanted to do something that was pushing the limits of SOP's he always told me what he was gonna do and why..... A couple times in a rush at Kennedy I questioned a young CA about something and both times he admitted to having used old procedures.....etc.

Id be real careful about running the the CP. Exhaust other avenues first then if nothing else works.. you MIGHT consider that.

Why is it bad to report to the Chief Pilot. Its still being handled by "pilots" Its not like he went to management like the VP for Ops or standards. I am not an airline pilot so please educate me on this one.

Judging by his lack of discretion in answering basic interview questions...no, I don't think I'd hire him.

There's nothing wrong with reporting something the the Chief Pilot. However before I have an applicant go running to the Chief for every little thing, I would want him/her to exercise their own ability to attempt to solve the problem.

Consider this fact. Some regional airlines have 1000-2000 pilots on their seniority list. If every FO that had a gripe or issue with a captain immediately reported that issue to the CP, the airline would come to a stand still, simply because the CP couldn't take care of the larger issues that come up on a day to day basis.

There are plenty of other options in this situation. Even if you have never worked for an airline, there is enough gouge out there to know the proper action. As a general rule, any time you have conflict, ALWAYS try to resolve it on YOUR level (ie Face to Face) before involving other parties.

Maybe this CA simply didn't know that the SOP had changed. Since the question doesn't specify the deviations in SOP, we don't know exactly how serious the incident was. What if it was something so simple as "the captain used the nose taxi light during the day, when the manual says not to"?

Is that something that really needs to be "reported"?

precisely

but have a beer with me!

No one likes a rat. There is nothing wrong with asking a captain why he doesn't do something by the SOP. Some have good reasons that aren't explained in the book. Ex. one captain turns the lights off at 10k in the day instead of 18k because he says it saves on the landing lights and they aren't much use on climb out above 10k anyway. Another example is how one captain shuts down the APU differently because doing it his way is actually shown to increase the life of the unit. Little things. I can't remember the last time I actually climbed at one of our two profiles. 290KIAS above 10k in a full 145 would basically mean I'm level.

The questions seem to be wide open to the fact that there are things that can be done while not in complete compliance with company standards and don't require a call to the CP. It seems your friend had a lack of thought on the subject. Every gouge out there has that exact question in it. I'd ask him if he prepared any for the interview and how. To me the responses show an indepth lack of preparation for something which shouldn't be taken lightly. So I wouldn't hire him. Did he at least wear a nice suit and tie along with a sharp haircut to let them know he was at least somewhat serious?

He is no one i know, just a person i ran into at an FBO and we got chatting about airlines.

I don't know where he applied but many of the companies have been sending everyone away then calling them and letting them know they are hired. Some even hire on the spot. If it's been a few days and he wasn't called then he might be waiting on something that will never come.

I don't think this apllicant will get hired...this is a common interview question and unless the scenario involved drugs/drinking on duty the expected response would be gradual escalation:

- Say something to the guy
- Say it again, but insist
- Call Pro standards
- Chief Pilot as a last resort.

But you have to let the guy know that you are turning him in (well I can think of few possible scenarios where you might not tell him first).

Real world: If the guy doesn't want to do checklists, then you do it yourself to back up him up.

It was a good answer and I'll tell you why.....

he was honest. If someone has never worked at an airline he probably doesn't know about proffesional standards and the other routes he could have taken. He hasn't been schooled on the "I'm not comfortable with that" catch phrase.

LET ME INTRODUCE YOU GUYS TO THE CHARLES THEORY....
and I better get credit for this when you repeat it...

You can be Charles Lindberg and if they don't need pilots; you're not getting a job...

OR

If they need pilots bad enough you could be Charles Manson and your in the next class.



Best advice, get some experience, don't be an uptight Prick, and just be honest. quit worrying what the "right" answer is.

Stickwiggler

Stick...

I am not concerned with spewing the right answer... I just thought it was funny how he responded... by all means you should be yourself in an interview...

Touche with the Charles theory..... it's definitely food for thought.

I, myself, have been told that I have a couple of screws loose in my head... afterall I do fly into T-storms for a living...

Good post Stick

NO. Address it with him in person if you're concerned about it, that's called conflict resolution, and it's a needed skill. If you're really concerned or can't work it out, bring it up with the professional standards committee at your airline. They'll have you work it out together. If you rat him out with the Chief Pilot, what happens when you fly with his non-standard friends after he visits with the CP? You now have a reputation as a hair splitting anal rat, and that ain't good. If you address it with him in person and/or with pro standards you don't diss him, and you keep your dignity and he respects you more.

Remember there are always gray areas with SOP's. Pick your battles, you'll be able to tell which ones are black and while and more safety critical than other.

tsween: Is that radar return in your avatar a depiction of Elvis?!

what, where did elvis come from there?

Looks like we've got a fan.

Use professional standards, your dues are paying for it, and it's a way of having pilots police their own group rather than involving management.

In the very short time that I was in Mgmt. as an assisstant to the assistant (gopher), management prefers to refer these things to pro stds., because it usually has better results. When it comes to instituing a change, peer pressure is usually a much better force than a manager that usually has his/her name on the bathroom wall.

Try doing 300 in a full 145. You can do it all the way up to the twenties with 1000fpm if you do it right. I do it that way every time.

BTW, there is only one CHQ profile. There are two EMB profiles.

The Chief Pilot IS management!!

Most airline pilot groups have a 'Professional Standards' function. If someone feels that communication directly with the CA is inappropriate or unproductive, then seek out these folks. They are line pilots not connected to management and often can handle issues like this without making a mess of it.

I think saying "lets get a beer" is so faux pas in the world of airline interviews that if I was the interviewer I would think the applicant must be very cocky to think he can get away with saying something like that. There's being yourself, and then there's crossing the line, you may swear like a sailor when your out with your buddies but that doesn't mean you do it in an interview. As for the chief pilot answer, not the best answer in my opinion, but acceptable for someone who may not have had any CRM training.

Eh...I don't quite know about that. In the Airline Interviews, there are ::usually:: Line-Pilots (Captains for the most part) that help conduct them. Unlike an office Job where the interviewer would have to work with a candidate for 8 hours a day, here the Interviewer all but lives with them for up to 4 or 5 days at a time. The "lets go get a beer" is a fantastic ice-breaker IMHO. Sounds like a guy I'd like to fly with.

BUT...I think he still was pushing the limit w/the run to the CP thing and all.

+He got hired and is happily flying now at GOJETS, right along with all the other back stabbing slime that is there!:eek: