PSA and CRJ Transition
 

So I'm getting ready to put my resume into PSA today and have been studying the aviationinterview website and had a question. for all the low timers that PSA has been hiring did most have CRJ transition courses? I've seen them hire down into the 300's and my time is about 430/45 so I'm hoping that since I don't have a CRJ Trans. course that I'll still get the interview. Thanks in advanced. Also anyone care to share a really good resume format. Mine is not bad but i'm curious to see how others do it.

I think i remember reading about another guy on here who had the same hours as you that got hired.
I'm also thinking about applying there sometime in the near future. But i still need to do a little more research.
I'll be one of the 300hr guys with the CRJ course.

What's your reasoning for PSA? Have you looked anywhere else or possibly staying in your current position to build some more TT and possibly multi?

I could stay for awile but building TT is slow here. I'm an airport manager in a small (very small) indiana town. However i've been building 5-8 hours multi a week but that is going to dry up soon. PSA and ASA are my two favorite because Dayton is a 2:30 hour drive from fort wayne and ASA has flight from FWA to ATL as I build time I will also try comair since they fly from FWA to Cincinatti. My parents gave me $10,000 when I graduated to help me build time to get to the regionals. (thank you parents) I have about 7100 bucks left so just trying to figure what I could do with that 7100 and my time to get to the next step. I hate the PFT because the airlines going to train you anyway but I would like to get on sooner rather than later because 1. I'm bored at my sleepy little midwestern airport 2 senority is everything! Thanks guys keep the ideas coming. If you think there is another good airline that i'm qualified for please let me know. Thanks guys

There is so much more to the story than "Seniority is everything". That's big academy marketing at it's best. Now, "luck is everything" is a more true statement, but it doesn't sell as well.

Go get a job flying the Grand Canyon or get a CFI job for six months somewhere outside of sleepy Indiana where you can experience something new and do some different kinds of flying. Save your $7100 and go out and build some more experience as a pilot. That way you earn your airline job rather than paying for it.

Thank you! My thoughts exactly.

You know i'd love to do that as well. Or maybe fly out in the Bahamas or something fun. But that's not financially feasable for everyone. The only reason i want to hurry up and get a job is so i can make some "decent" money and start paying off all these bills...
Plus with the CRJ course you have an edge up on everyone because you have basically already completed the ground course and have FTD time in the CRJ.

I never intended on paying for my training. Thats why I was asking about if this would hurt me or not. However I'm not surprised on this bored to here the same old things as- get your cfi- build time that way. Well I have my cfi and I'm building it the old fashion way. thats why I still have all that money(which was the only thing my parents gave me). I have CFI friends and other people getting hired with less time than I. Why would I move pay to a new apartment, lose a good job that I have now 32kyear just to get someplace I could probably get now. I understand everyones gripes about "low time" pilots I just hate that every thread that starts with a legitimate question turns into the older guys, who had to have higher times to get on(I get it, it was harder then), bashing the younger guys and then the younger guys try to rationalize. Hey I'm not going to rationalize that low time pilots are as good as a higher time pilots because their not. but h$ll I bet you would have jumped at the chance if you could of. What ever happend to the older pilots at the airport helping the younger ones out. All I'm saying is for a change lets leave the "grumpy old timers" and the "punk new kids that haven't paid their dues" out of it and answer the D!amn question.



Rant Over

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah man i don't understand what these guys problems are but whatever... You basically hit the nail on the head, and they need to get over it.:rolleyes:

Nothing in this thread that calls for a rant...

Tad sensitive are we?

"Hey I'm not going to rationalize that low time pilots are as good as a higher time pilots because their not"

Couldn't agree more.

"What ever happend to the older pilots at the airport helping the younger ones out."

I think I am. Why do you think spend hours moderating this site? It seems to me you are hearing answers to your questions you don't like and would rather rant on, all a cussin' and a swearin', than wonder who so many folks at this speak out against 300 hour jet F/O's and paying for RJ programs as a way to get hired will less experience as a pilot.

"All I'm saying is for a change lets leave the "grumpy old timers" and the "punk new kids that haven't paid their dues" out of it and answer the D!amn question."

What was your question again?

I don't think it was an attack on low timers leaving for a shiny jet job. I was only referring to you building a small amount of time and going to a BETTER regional. You'd be surprised what an extra 6 months can get you when you go to a regional that pays horribly, has poor work rules, and doesn't treat their pilots well. If you wait an extra 6 months (or less) and get into a regional that has a good reputation suddenly you wanting to get a job flying jets turned out a lot better then you had originally planned.

Hindsight is 20/20... you don't want to look back a year from now and realize that a low level regional was not the best choice even though you can start logging "jet time" "121 time" and get a seniority number. The sky isn't falling...sometimes when you slow down...you actually speed up!

You are arguing that you want to spend THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS for unnecessary training because you are short on money???:confused::confused: You want to use that "experience" so you can get on with the lowest paying airlines so you can pay off expensive bills? You sound confused.

But I want to help you!!
I really do. So let me explain your two options.

Option one (your way)
Pay $6,000 for training that you do not need. Ok, you are down $6,000. Then you can use this so called training to get on with an airline. The only airlines that this will help you get on with are TSA, PSA, Piedmont, Mesa, etc... So you get hired at one of these airlines. They all pay about $20,000 first year. Then about $28,000 second year. Maybe $30,000 third year. Maybe $32,000 fourth year. Get the picture.

Option two (the good way).
Don't take that RJ course. Ok, that us + $6,000 you have to pay off your bills. I bet that will pay off a huge portion of your debt. Congratulations. You didn't have to do anything (except avoid that expensive RJ course). Get on at a busy flight school that pays well. At my flight school, instructors are independent contractors and make $35/hr. If you fly a lot, you can make more than at any regional airline. Work there for 6 months while you build up to 800-1000 hours TT. Instead of making $20,000 at PSA, you can make $30,000 easily building valuable experience. Take that extra $5,000 you made during that 6 months and pay off your bills. I bet that will pay off a huge portion of your debt. Now that you have the experience, get one with a decent paying regional airline (Skywest, Republic, ExpressJet). Make $25,000 first year, $35,000 second year, $60,000 third year. Get the picture. Take all that extra money and pay off your bills. I bet that extra money will pay off all of your debt.


Do you see what I am trying to convey. Taking the RJ course just costs $6,000 and puts you into further debt. Working for a low quality airline (the only type of airline that RJ course is going to help you get on with) will only make you less money and put you further into debt. Or you can stick out for six months, instruct, get some good experience (and good money), and go to a good airline. This is by far the best path if you are worried about your bills.


I am trying to help you. Don't take this the wrong way. You have a choice. You have a choice! Make the right one. I promise it will benefit you in the long run... Or you can shoot yourself in the foot. If you do, let me know how it feels. I won't be doing it.
Ryan

The question do the people at PSA getting hired with 300-400hrs have CRJ trans. courses? And does anyone have a good resume format? I'm sensitive because every thread ends up in the same debate. As a moderator to this site maybe you can help keep threads on topic and to not fall into the standard debate. This is a great site with lots of good info but look through the threads and see how many turn into a debate over high/low time pilots. It's rediculous when someone asks a simple question that a moderator thats suposed to be "helping younger pilots" stears the conversation to the debate that we are all tired of reading about. The situation is what it is. Help the younger guys make the best of it. I see you work for UPS I have a Capt friend for UPS that not only is encouraging me to jump in while its hot but is actually doing things to help out. So which UPS Capt do I believe. Of course I don't like to here negetive comments who does. But would you honestly flight instruct which I have been doing for 2 years or try and work your butt off to fly an RJ now i'm not as low time as other people that have been hired on but I'm still a little low I could wait another year but hey who says the regionals would be hiring in a year. I respect your input as an experianced aviator but in no way have I payed for my airline career. In fact I've had to work my rear off just to get as far as I have. But you know what I don't take it for granted when I do get to a Regional I'm not going to act like a premodana. I know that I won't know poop but h$ll I'm willing to work my butt off to get there and to catch up with others. Now again I'm going to try to take this post back to the original topic. Anybody got any info on CRJ trans courses and how much they affect PSA hiring decision. Thanks
for all the older guys who give their contributions and help younger pilots. If its building time or giving info its all good stuff and I thank you for it. :)

"I don't think it was an attack on low timers leaving for a shiny jet job. I was only referring to you building a small amount of time and going to a BETTER regional. You'd be surprised what an extra 6 months can get you when you go to a regional that pays horribly, has poor work rules, and doesn't treat their pilots well. If you wait an extra 6 months (or less) and get into a regional that has a good reputation suddenly you wanting to get a job flying jets turned out a lot better then you had originally planned.

Hindsight is 20/20... you don't want to look back a year from now and realize that a low level regional was not the best choice even though you can start logging "jet time" "121 time" and get a seniority number. The sky isn't falling...sometimes when you slow down...you actually speed up!"

See now thats good stuff!
So my question to that is PSA a junky airline I have 430/45 I always planned on putting in to ASA because of the good pay and reputation and the QOL I would have by an easy commute from FWA. Same goes for Comair who I have some internal Req with but again I would have to commute. Should I just forget PSA and wait for "better regionals" PSA was a top choice because I would rather drive 2 hours to dayton rather than rely on airline commuting. I would just like to have more control if I could. The reason I want to stay at FWA is a new baby! and a wife with a good job that can support my poor butt through the regional airlines. Thus I can't instruct at some school with lots of students. Thanks guys :)

"As a moderator to this site maybe you can help keep threads on topic"

Why? It's called thread creep. It happens at all internet message boards. While it can sometimes be an annoyance, it can be equally educational. You have to learn to read through the creep.

"It's rediculous when someone asks a simple question that a moderator thats suposed to be "helping younger pilots" stears the conversation to the debate that we are all tired of reading about."

I'm not tired of it. If you didn't want a debate, then a simple "uh huh" in response to my friendly attempt to advise you on a better route would have been fine. Instead, you went off with your rant and now we are where we are.

If what I say bothers you that much, feel free to use the ignore feature....

I think if you do a search for ASA and Comair you'll find #1 that you will probably end up liking it better #2 you will make more money and #3 that your "internal rec" will pay off greatly...everyone is so desperate right now. Instead of an airline choosing you...you can choose where you want to go!

de727ups - ok for about the millonth time in my life i'm going to step back and eat some humble pie. :) Your are right that most forums creep ,however, this "debate" started on the secound post. however you are right it wouldn't have gotten nearly off this much if I wouldn't have ranted so for that I apologize. I should have let you give me your opinion so a question for you just to know from someone with experiance what is the right "hour level" to start applying? Thanks and sorry for being a craby little prick.

oldveedubs - I understand all that but on all of those airlines i would have to commute PSA I would not so are their work rules and pay bad enough to warrent commuting? I really don't know. I've been reading through the forums and most people seem pretty happy at PSA granted the pay isn't great but i'm not expecting much until upgrade anyway. FYI I get around 30hr per month at my current airport manager / CFI job and every once and awile about every other week some free twin time. So six months would only be about 180hrs.

thanks for all the input

I'm sure guys are very happy at first. I loved my 135 job when they graciously offered all the line service guys interviews for right seat king air jobs at 300 hours. Those of us who passed took the jobs and loved it for about 400 hours. Once we started to realized that we were able to work elsewhere for much better pay and treatment we began to get frustrated.

Getting a jet job at 300 hours will make most people happy but as you watch other pilots doing the same job you do for much better money/upgrade times/work rules and treatment you may not see things the same way.

Instead of spending $6000 on a CRJ class, take 1000 dollars to a bar in Houston where XJT pilots go or Lofty's in SLC where SKW pilots drink. Buy drinks for every pilot in the bar and I'll bet your new found internal recs will be much more powerful than any CRJ course.

I watch Mesa sit in ORD during ground holds and thank god I held out for block or better. I see TSA guys parked next to their GoJet brothers wonder what it must feel like to watch those psuedo-scabs (not real scabs) from their point of view.

Wow now that's some good advice. Although i think you got me and the OP mixed up. I've already taken the CRJ course and am just finishing up my CFI right now.

Who cares about 3rd year + pay and longer at the regionals. Just get in with a regional who will fly your a$$ off as quicly as possible. You need to build that tt and jet time to get on with a major here in the next 3-4 years. Except for a very select few, Turbine PIC will no longer matter in the near future when it comes down to getting on with a major/legacy carrier. We are now witnessing the beginning of the demise of the "regional" carriers. There are not enough pilots to fill the slots we have now, never mind in a year or two. PSA, for instance, will hire you originally to class but has had a 40%+ failure rate in or before the sim. So what does that mean to the average low timer? It means that #1, low timers are proving they cant handle the "121 jet transition" on a consistant basis. #2, because more and more are failing (no surprise), less are getting slots in the "right seat". Which means less can upgrade that need to, to fill the slots more "experienced" pilots have left behind to go to the majors/legacy's. Which means more cancelled flights due to lack of crews. Which means parking planes, losing money and bankruptcy. Bottom line, get your time as fast as possible and get to a major/legacy/corporate etc.... because its only a matter of a few years before the industry goes to complete and utter crap and everone is a miserable wreck once again. Senority is everything and only the ones who make it there first will still have a job in a several years.

You don't want to go to PSA. Its not a good place to be. Here's a current thread on the ALPA 61 message board, the Dayton local. It is a typical PSA issue, and is very representative of how thier management operates.
http://sc.groups.msn.com/img/R9c/c.gif


/quote
Pilot A:
Please change your MKE airport diagram to reflect that we now park at C 18at the Milwaukee Airport. The new ops freq. is 131.5.

We went to MKE yesterday and did like the diagram said and went to gate 51, 53....but nobody was home and there was no equipment there.....We tried to call them on 130.5 but we did not know that there had been a change to the ops freq. We called the MKE ops phone number and there was no answer. We called our dispatch and told them that we were at our gate as depicted in our airport diagram and in all of their wisdom they said..." You guys are suppose to be at gate 51 or 53!!!! Go there now!!!" ...........I said "I AM AT 51 AND 53 AND NOBODY IS HERE!!!!!!" There response was "Oh.....well we show that that is the gate and ....ummm...(covers up phone..."hey I got 2315 on the ground in Milwaukee and they taxied to the wrong gate....do we know where to park in Milwaukee????) I then lost it and said "WE DID NOT TAXI TO THE WRONG GATE!!!! WE WENT TO THE GATES DEPICTED IN OUR DIAGRAM AND USAIRWAYS IS NOT HERE AND THEY DO NOT ANSWER ON THE OPS FREQ!!!!" Grrrrr. He corrected himself but yet nobody in dispatch knew where USairways parks in MKE.....SO we called MKE ground and ask if they knew anything about USAirways ops moving...they said "Stand by".....(probably so they could laugh at us) "Try the C gates...there appears to be some ground personnel waiting for you near C18.

This is how we do business here at PSA. The incompetence of our airline and their inability to complete a flight because nobody bother to let the pilots know that we now park a half mile away in a different terminal. And who do you think they will blame this on????? The pilots because we sat for 10 min. at the wrong gates trying to find our spot.

What a joke this place has become.


Pilot A:
Hey....FYI.....
MKE Ops moved on July 7th 2007...I got there on Aug 5th......so there was one whole month that PSA had to get this info....

Pilot B:
I went in there about 3 weeks ago and fortunately we had an AWAC jumpseater who knew that we had switched gates AND knew the new freq. Guess who filed an ops report that our gate and freq were wrong? Guess who never heard anything back?

Our Station Bulletin pages are some of the most useless things going right now. Half of them are wrong and and out date.

Pilot C:
This happens every time at every station that changes. Shows how much all levels of management care about running a smooth operation. Just a question, did the station info on the release reflect the new info????

RF

Pilot D:
I wish that you would have let the rest of us know..... you should have know the company wouldn't tell us. I know it's not your job but it would have kept Darren and I from looking like a couple of Jack _ss's.......... But the info is out there every one take note......

Pilot A:
Hey Randy,
The release reflected D 51 and 53, as does "Shares" and "Dex". Flight info will not give a freq but has C18 for the gate. (a lot of good that does me in the cockpit). That should make it clear as mud. It is wrong in the places that we have access to as pilots trying to complete a flight....half right in other places and correct but missing gate information in other places.

Pilot A:
I thought that this info would be important enough to put in todays DRS but it must be of little concern to the company. I called Tom Arline to suggest that this info be made available to the all of the crews ASAP but that just does not happen here at PSA. Nothing in the DRS today or for the past month about this change in gate info or ops freq.


Pilot E:
"What a joke this place has become."

Become? I can't remember when this place wasn't a joke.

Muff
5 yrs. and counting

Pilot A:
Did you know.....

Our maintenance was rank #1 and won several awards back in the 1990's.
PSA use to be ranked up in the top 10 and sometimes in the top 5 for performance.
We actually had some pride in this place.....sure we bitched about things but in the past five years (just about the time you got here EarMuffs....hummmm) this place went down hill fast!!! I have never seen such a poorly run operation than ours....and to say that this beats working at Mesa is a stupid analogy. Mesa sucked back then just as much as they suck now. Look at what they did to CC air and Florida Gulf.....can you say Freedom scabs and oh..GRRRRRR...I doubt that I have to go on.......

We weren't the best but we were gaining ground.......Now we suck......in almost every way.......passengers hate us.....the press eat us alive.....other regional think we sold out with the slots on the jets to the J4Js which set an industry standard for giving up seniority....oh and then there is the CEL guys flying our left seats.....Why don't we just let the USairways MEC allow all of the Pinnacle, Mesaba and Eagle guys over here to fly in our seats. Throw in some Comair guys and some Mesa pilots to add insult to injury........This place sucks!!!!!


Pilot F:
"other regional think we sold out with the slots on the jets to the J4Js which set an industry standard for giving up seniority....oh and then there is the CEL guys flying our left seats"

Most of the guys n gals I talk to who weren't affected by the J4J program don't know it even existed. This brings me to a question: In 8 months when they are all gone, are you still going to be crying over spilled milk? Get over it already!

and, you're right, this place does suck. I don't think the morale is even repairable at this point.
/quote

Life is not good for bluestreakers right now. Comair is a much better choice and just a little further away in Cincitucky, or how about Republic/Chautauqua/Shuttle America with their Indianapolis base? Much better is not much further.