Dash-8 Drivers...
 

Driving by LGA today and saw a Dash on final for 31 (Expressway Visual)...Looked to see who was behind him when I noticed another Dash that was clean, still moving pretty well and appearing much higher than usual just about to turn inbound to final. It was impressive to see the gear come down and all that altitude lost in the short distance remaining to the runway - all while making it seem like a smooth transition. Don't know if there are any other Dash operators at LGA besides Piedmont, but I just wanted to let you guys know that your skills were being admired from below. Nice to actually see in action what I hear from former and current Dash drivers on APC.

I'm not a Dash 8 driver but I have a LOT of time on the "Dash 6". Dehavilland builds the absolute BEST TURBOPROP IN THE AIR in my opinion. The admiration for these excellent workhorses is well deserved. I wish USAir management would get off their arse and order the Q400's for the Piedmont guys. They have my highest respect for their fine work.

Wish I could have done that in the CRJ into DEN today...!

Been seeing a good number of those Q4's around lately and must say I'm a bit Jealous! That is not to say I'd trade equipment, but rather those Prop guys deserve even more respect, IMHO ;-)

Yeah, I really miss the Dash. We always had to stifle a laugh when ATC asked, "Are you going to be able to get down?" If you could see it, you could hit it.

any of the big turbo props could do that. the atr was great for coming in fast and stopping on a dime. you could be doing vmo on downwind abeam the departure end of the runway at 2000 feet agl and still hit the thousand foot markers with no effort.

True enough. I've flown with several ex-ATR guys, and we all have similar stories. IMO, the Barbie jet just isn't as fun.

Jetstreams, baby, that's where it's at. :D

I occasionally liked getting a chuckle from ATC whan they would ask if we could maintain 200 to the marker and I would respond with "Outer or Middle?".

Got about five hundred hours of Dash time too, and I gotta admit I would fly that airplane through the deepest, darkest depths of blackest hell.

The Dash-8 turns into an elevator at Vref with the gear and flaps out. I've made normal sized patterns, landing well within the touchdown zone, when 4,000 AGL on downwind abeam the touchdown point.:D

I have a burning question for you Dash drivers...I used to work for Sheltair at LGA and saw many a PDT Dash 8 come and go. My queston is why when you take postion and hold are the spoilers up until just after take off power is applied? Ive noticed this quite a few times.

It's been almost five years since I flew the Dash 8 and my memory is a bit rusty. Maybe some current pilots can back me up on this...

The older Dash 8's had a "Flight/Ground" switch installed to control the spoiler function. I believe the PSEU would sense WOW and Power Lever position (around 19% torque I think) to determine if the spoilers would be up or down...for example:

Switch in FLIGHT:
On the ground (WOW) with the Power Levers at idle, the spoilers would be UP...this could occur either clearing the runway after landing OR taxiing onto the runway to hold in position. As soon as the power levers are advanced for T/O (and above the Microswitch at approx. 19% TQ) the PSEU sends a signal to retract the spoilers.

Switch in GROUND:
During all ground ops. the switch is placed in GROUND which basically (if I remember) takes the Power Lever Switch and the WOW out of the equation and stows the boards.

The Q200's didn't have the switch but I'm told the Q400 does.

Hope that helps!
Treetop

Only a little addition: the switch in flight, power levers near flight idle and weight on wheels causes spoilers to deploy once all wheels are on the ground during landing. They will remain deployed until the switch is taken to taxi.

The 200s and 300s do not have the switch because they do not have ground mode operation of the flight spoilers. No spoilers deploy on landing in those airplanes.

I agree. I used to fly the Dash as well, and it's true that it has the ability to go from clean and 200 to configured and Ref+10 in no more than a couple minutes. I think all former Dash Drivers will miss it.

I remember when I went through Dash ground school, they told us that we might get comments over the radio about this one. I never did, but apparently there have been a couple worried radio calls from other pilots who didn't know about it already.

They told us that maintenance was known to paint "[mainline carrier] sucks" underneath them, too. I never heard anything about that, either. :cool:

Heck, the CRJ-700 can come down like a bag of hammers, too, as long as you can get to at least Flaps 20. The -400 does a little better because you can also slow it so much (like 105 knots when light). When you hear the flight attendant walking around on the cockpit door, you're steep enough.

Turbo-props rock...... I have about 1000 hours in the ATR and that thing could take 210 to the to intercepting the GS and rock and roll.....

When I was a newbi herc driver I did my first overhead assault from 10,000... yes 10,000....down initial at 200.... power off until NTS..... decelerate...flaps ...gear... full flaps...pitch down and hold 125..... keep your spacing ....ONE full 360 turn to final.... and full stop to the assault strip.... 65 tons... stopping on 3000' of dirt or asphalt. vsi's sometimes in excess of 3000-4000fpm....

TURBO-PROPS ROCK!!!!

yea, I'm a Dash guy for PDT and am based out of LGA, do that approach all the time...that approach is really fun once you know how to really handle the plane, it's probably one of my favorite actually

Yep i had a Spirit guy tell me that my " WING BOARDS WHERE UP" .;)

That's cute guys.. but I have to say im pretty partial to the 1900's performance. We rarely carry more than 5 people, so we can stop in like 1500', climb steady 190kts at 2.5k fpm or better. As much as I hate swinging the door and everything else equated with the Beech- its a performer.

I will say that I probably get more props (excuse the pun) from the mainline guys i jumpseat with, more often than not they built their time in beech 99's, or early 1900s.

Might transition to the Dash 8-400 in Nov though, looking forward to that.

I saw u guys (PDT) landing at LGA today around 12:45-13:00... whoever did the landing, it was the nicest landing I've ever seen with the dash, esp with those stiff legs!

Not exactly
 

The Shorts 360 could NOT go down AND slow down ... it was one or the other ... ;)

Couldn't even push the props up to slow ... had to already be below 150K, which you weren't above very often anyway !

:D

Lol is that a joke ..2,000 AGL:D try 9,000 downwind into BWI and put it in the middle of two 737's. Don't forget the Dash decends like an elevator.

All my respect to the Dash drivers.

For me the Dash was and will always be the most interesting plane to fly. Every other plane becomes a computer game and I consider myself now as a swith manipulator, computer operator and so on.
Go Dash drivers and Piedmonsters.

Concur. I don't want to say it's not much like flying anymore, but compared to the 8, well, it's not much like flying anymore. :)

you guys are making me even more excited than i am already.....i'll be starting on the dash in 2 weeks :D

I miss the Dash
 

Flew the Dash for 6 years. It was the most capable airplane that I've flown. Since I've flow the E-170, 747-4, and now MD-11 training, but the best pilots I've flown with were the Dash-8 pilots with ALG. Really miss flying with those older experienced guys. I would put the old ALG captains up against any of the guys that I've flown with since. That includes myself, since leaving that airplane my skills have gone. Now it's just pushing buttons. Miss the Dash-8 and the ALG guys (now pdt).

I know what you mean buggs... when I first flew the ATR.... most of the CA's were old Command Airways guys... and had flown those aircraft since delivery in France. I learned alot from the likes of ED V. and company. It was sorta the same way when I was learning to fly the Herc... the old 0-4's and 0-5's that had been around since Vietnam really could fly that plane...Vic Powers comes to mind... he was LTC in our Wing, and that muther taught me how to fly the most agressive assault approaches and landing of any instructor I ever flew with. There just isnt any substitute for lots of hands on flying experience.

Probably a dumb question but does the Dash 8 200 have a jump seat in the cockpit?

Not stupid, but yes it does. You guys are making miss the the dash, 5 and half years in the 100, 200, and finally the 400. The 400 could not come down like the 1's and 2's because the FADEC controlled the props, but the mother could sure climb. To bad the schedule and financial upside of the Dash was not what it is with the Big Boeing.

It's cockpit is quite spacious with lots of room for the J/S.

I loved the Dash 8's landing abilities. Land and taxi-off with out touching the brakes in under 2000' at half flaps (15 degrees)!

It could slow down like no other, however, I hated the insanely low gear and flap speeds, it made it very uncomfortable to slow down (158 VLO, I believe). Forget flaps 35, you'll hang in your harness, the NW is lower than the mains till about 95 kts (making the first taxiway in 1500' is like shooting fish in barrel.) The ATR, on the other hand had a lot higher flap and gear speed and made it a lot more comfortable to slow down. The ATR had pretty respectable short field performance as well. We routinely brought her into 3400' strips in the Caribbean, not bad for a 48,000 lb beast.

I think the Dash 7 outdoes, just about everything for short field performance, I spoke with a Fed that used to fly 'em for Rocky Mountain Airways. With a twinkle in his eye, he spoke of many tales... ref at MLW (50 pax?) with full flaps was somewhere in the low 80's. 8 degree MLS approaches into Steamboat Springs were of no concern.

The ERJ will come down like a meteor at flaps 45 and FI.

I can't speak for the mighty 1900, but if it's similar to the B200's I've flown, it is hands down one of the best flying/handling airframes out there. 1900 has some pretty high ref speeds for a T-prop though. At least it'll out-run a DHC8 and keep up with an ATR 72.

Anyone with Brazilia, or Saab stories?

I would give my left nut for a crack at a Q400.

I flew the DASH 8-100 for Agony (Allegheny) for 2000 hrs worth and would rate it as one of the better airplanes I've flown. The slow Vref speed, short stopping distance, spacious cockpit, in the day its' advanced avionics (sorry to date myself), and the ability to slow down quickly by pushing the props up were some of its' finer qualities.

The Expressway to 31 and the visual approach to 13 (LGA) were two of my favorite approaches closely rivaled by the Canarsie at JFK and down the River at DCA.

Glad to see the DASH is still flying.

FF


CC, you guys got the Shorts above 150 KTS ??!!! Was that going downhill ??!!! :D:D

Cactus Crew, I can't believe you could besmirch the great name of the Shorts. Where would the Saab and Dash be if the Shorts had never delivered them :)

I admit the 360 was pretty slippery, but the 330 could go down and slow down fairly well. The poor Shorts had TON's of drag but it was always there, you couldn't really add any when you needed it. I really enjoyed flying it though.

Used come into Reno and cross the ridge to the West at 11,000 and they'd ask if we could make a straight in to 7. Peg the VSI and down we go. Of course we only had boxes not pax so they didn't complain about the deck angle etc.

I've since moved on to the Dash 8's -100 and -400 and while I don't think I will ever love another plane the way I love the Dash I do miss the Shorts from time to time. Kinda like you miss that UGLY stray dog that used to hang around :)

JW is that you?

Oh man. Now I miss the -200 as well. Flaps 35, max reverse and brakes in the touchdown zone, it would turn any lap children into meat missles. (only did it empty, so no actual lap children were harmed during this post). The -400 is cool to fly, but I miss the abilities and agilities of the 200. I once heard atc asking a 200 crew if they could make a crossing restriction and they're reply was, " No problem, we're coming down like a broken rock!" -classic

"I think the Dash 7 outdoes, just about everything for short field performance, I spoke with a Fed that used to fly 'em for Rocky Mountain Airways. With a twinkle in his eye, he spoke of many tales... ref at MLW (50 pax?) with full flaps was somewhere in the low 80's. 8 degree MLS approaches into Steamboat Springs were of no concern."



HEHE - I was a Rocky Mountain Rocker for five years, and for my money, the -7 was the best airplane in the biz. Ref at MLW was 88 knots, and you could have her stopped in 800-1000', scared the hell out of pax, and pushed them against their lap belts pretty hard. We used to lovingly call the -7 the smash dash for this reason. Then you could turn around and get it off the ground in 2000' @ 44,000Lbs MTOW. I recall the days of Steamboat and Leadville out of Stapleton, good times. I live in Steamboat now, and longingly drive past the Steamboat airport on my way to Hayden to get a ride to work, and miss the good old days of the Dash-7:rolleyes:.

Saw one come into Renton one day and nearly shat myself as he took off in what looked like 500 ft. With being empty at sea level that may not be too much of an exaggeration. There is just something sexy about 4 engine TPs.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Briti...ada/1301250/M/

You bet. Is that you God?

Forgive the out-of-left-field question, but does anyone know how large the radar antenna is on the -8? I can't find it in any of my old info. Thanks!