Just because somebody wrote a law saying that this one guy is responsible for everything to do with that flight doesn't mean that's how the dynamic of the system is set up. If anybody here with any 121 experience can tell me that the captain has full effective authority over that flight, I'll show you delusion.

Add to that the unrelenting repetitive nature of this job, throw in reduced rest, and all of the other factors that went into this crash, and the crew becomes more and more the victim of circumstances stacked against them. Yes, they were the ones that pushed and pulled the knobs and buttons that caused the airplane to crash, but to say that they alone are responsible for a system that requires more people outside the cockpit than in it is far too simplistic.

The crew did some things wrong, but so did the controllers, and the airport manager, and... and... and...

As with any accident, stopping any one of the many "contributing factors" would likely prevent the crash. Finding the "blame" in an accident is a fruitless adventure. All of the factors involved need to be evaluated, and procedures and training changed to prevent them in the future.

Remember these posts next time you fill out an ASAP report or a Nasa report. Instead of writing down the contributing factors or trying to rationalize why you made the decisions or omissions that led to your screw up, just write "I was the PIC it is my fault and no one else's".

I see so now the flight crew are victims...... If you say so.

Nice context removal. You should be a reporter.

I don't think anyone on here is saying the pilots are solely to blame and that there were no contributing factors. Every accident has a chain of events that lead up to them.

You said it not me. I readily admit there is more than enough blame to go around. From the controllers to the flight crew etc et al. But I personally dont see the flight crew as victims.

As for reduced rest....just what was there RON time? According to the NTSB report they had MORE than the mandated FAA or company rest period. I read the 28 points from the NTSB and only a handful or so speak to the crew. But the fact is that the crew was in the aircraft...not the controller...not the dispatcher...nor some crew scheduler. Was this an avoidable accident,,,,absolutly, does the crew bear 100% of the blame...not in any shape or form... any number of things ( several by the crew ) could have happened to possibly avoid this tragedy. And as far as effective authority of the PIC you can spin it anyway you like but thats the person responsible for the Passengers and crew and aircraft. And yes there is a LAW as you put it that espouses that but isnt that the intent when you take the left seat to be the PILOT IN COMMAND. Very few accidents are cut and dried and this one is no different but that doesnt change the basic facts of the case. While there are certainly other contributing elements as laid out in the NTSB report in the end it was the failure of the flight crew to realize they were on the wrong runway for departure.

The real loss in this aftermath is that things in our country do not get fixed (due primarily to cheapskateness) until people die. The government does not move until they are officially told to. The NTSB can help to make things happen. We all know that the ATC guys are as beat up as the airline guys, due to an overly cheap management. The NTSB had an opportunity to help put pressure on ATC staffing, and crew scheduling/rest/circadian rhythm issues. They declined their opportunity by placing the blame 100% on the pilots. Now we will all have to keep working in the same cheap-*** broke-*** under funded system, as the politicians will just say "it's the pilots' faults."

Loud.... I agree with you. Though I dont see how the NTSB's report which lists 28 factors solely blame the flight crew. The only reason in my mind that the controller on duty doesnt have as much blame in this tragedy is because he wasnt in th cockpit, short of that he had numerous chances where he could have help avert this accident. I dont agree with the NTSB report that basically sidestepped the factor when they addressed the fact that there was only one controller on duty. Had there been two probably this becomes an incident...not an accident. but the same could be said on many different levels.

I agree however that the NTSB missed an opportunity to point out a problem in the system and perhaps bring about some corrective action.

Yeah, I know that they still listed all of the other factors, and it's not really 100% blame. However, all of the politics, and therefore money is in the headline blame. If the contributing factors aren't included in the headline blame, they tend to get brushed aside. Then all of the managers announce new "training programs" to make sure those silly pilots (and controllers) get things right. My personal favorite is that when fatigue does get blamed, some idiot manager talks about "better fatigue training".

The only better fatigue training is REST.