SkyHigh

A shutdown is more difficult than a furlough since furloughed pilots know that eventually they will most likely be called back. They are not working as pilots currently however in the back of their minds they know that they are not totally thrown out with the trash either.

I imagine that furloughed pilots seek temporary jobs and never quite invest themselves into a new career. A shutdown however is devastating. You are thrown out and kicked to the curb. Your locker is cleaned out and then sold at auction. The planes go away and within a matter of months are all repainted. The record of your efforts are totally erased. The experience is heartbreaking.

Starting completely over in aviation is difficult. Most of your best aviation contacts are usually at the same company and now everyone is looking to each other for help. Pilots are nearly worthless outside of the seniority system. Most face a grim prospect of having to take a few steps back. Even furloughed pilots have a number. My number now is zero (or number one depending how you look at it).

On the other hand when a company does shutdown you are mentally totally cut free. New careers are pursued more earnestly. Life changing decisions are easier to make. The government offers more help. It has been said that whenever a company shuts down nearly half of the pilots never return to aviation. I support those numbers.

SkyHigh

FlyerJosh

Both suck.

But I dispute your numbers about 50% leaving. I only have one company to go by (independence air), but definitely more that 50% of the pilots are still flying in some capacity or another and 80% of those have landed in good positions with corporate operators, fractionals or other national/major carriers after almost 2 years from the shutdown.

SkyHigh

Perhaps that is because Independence Air had a younger group of pilots who can recover easier than older people with mortgages, wives and children?

Skyhigh

FlyerJosh

Actually more of the people that left were the younger crowd that didn't want to return to another regional. IDE had a widely diverse group of pilots (including a good number that had over 8-12 years at the company).

I can think of folks that I worked with at IDE that now work for Boeing, Airbus, JetBlue, Continental, Virgin America, Delta, Airtran, Southwest, Alaska, Emirates, Cathay, several overseas contract gigs, all of the fractionals, and just about every regional out there.

You're right that most of your contacts are at the same company (for most individuals). However, my former coworkers have been a great source of support and networking. I know that should the need/arise ever come to fruition, I can call on them to help me out, and I have helped several out over the past 2 years. It comes down to the people.

Following the demise of Independence, two employee driven websites came into existance. One is an online directory of pilots/employees to assist in networking and just keeping in touch. (www.ipilots.org). There are over 1500 former employees listed via this site, including almost 1000 pilots.

The other is a collection of company memorabilia and history. (In great need of organization and updating due to my own personal time constraints.) (www.ridgelines.org).

In the end, it's 95% attitude and outlook that will propel you to success or drive you out of the industry. You can sit in your own misery following a shutdown or furlough. Plenty of people do. Or you can say to yourself "yeah that sucks, but there are other opportunities." I learned a great deal at ACA/IDE, and I miss the good days I had, but I recovered (along with a great deal of others), and have found something just as good (and often better).

Freightpuppy

I don't know why you always bring wives into the picture. A wife should be able to pull her own weight when it comes to money.

dojetdriver

One of the smartest things I've ever heard from you.

SkyHigh

You could insert husband as well. It is not a sexist statement. Whenever I consider what I think is a good quality of life it includes a stay at home parent. I realise that many people wouldn't make the same choice, but to me and my wife it is essential.

Pulling your own weight means more than income potential. A spouse can be at home a doing a good job of actively taking care of children and running the household.

SkyHigh

johnso29

While I do agree with some of your statements, I think that your overall Anti-Aviation philosophy is a little hypocritcal. You say that it is selfish for pilots to play in the sky like Peter Pan. That we should commit ourselves fully to our families and spend more time at home. We should all find some home business to start and run. But I ask you...is it fair to your family, to your wife and kids if you are unhappy doing something you don't enjoy? It is fair to them to not enjoy what you do for a living and pass your misery on to your family? While flying for a living is not for everyone, for some its the only living we enjoy. I've had the office job, I've dealt with home businesses and I hate it all. And while I respect you for providing for your family and putting them first, you can't always assume that everyone would be happy doing something else, and if they can't be happy then I don't think their family can. Everyones lives have variables, and everyones lives are different. I think you should respect that.

SkyHigh

My father had an exciting career when he was younger and then in his upper 20's he got married and had children. At that point he chose a more humble position that was much less satisfying but paid better and was more suited for family life. His story is very common and it should be.

When someone chooses to be a parent they are obligated to do right by the the children that they brought into this world. A lot of what they use to do as a single person they simply can not do as a parent.

There is no magic bullet. It is impossible to live your life without some kind of regret. Someone will be unhappy. Most of the time parenthood is a choice. It comes with responsibilities and sacrifices. Children do not have a vote and if they did I am sure that they would much rather have a father who was home more.

I sat next to plenty of crusty old captains who put their wants first. They traveled the world, were gone for months at a time. Took on lots of over time. Moved with every opportunity to advance. And, they all had stories of lost children who don't talk to them anymore or who are total strangers to their own father since he wasn't there most of the time. I would much rather morn my lost flying career. It's all about choices.

People have many sides. You can be happy doing something else if you wanted to.

SkyHigh

Quagmire