ASA Pilot Overage?
 

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to say that it is a bit confusing to me how the current status of the company as well as the industry is considered "starved" by a supposed pilot shortage. This confusion is caused by the fact that I have been sitting here on reserve without a call for over a week now. I have called scheduling and they say they have nothing. I know of several reserve guys that are flying on a regular basis. Some say they have to call scheduling just to see if there is anything. All this and I bet you somewhere out there a pilot is being worked to fatique and hasn't had a day off in 4-5 days. I think the real problem lies within a combination of a very small pilot shortage and a major scheduling efficiency problem. Not trying to put down any schedulers as I know they are just doing their jobs but the system could really use some work. Anybody else feel this or is it just me?

well I know that from what we ve heard in Indoc training, and this came straight from schdeuling, is that they cut flights from like 450 flights a day in AUg to like 360-370 in Sept. only cause it is the slow season, but the lines will go back up in Nov for the holidays and Spring Break, then next summer they will be consistent at 400+ like they were this summer, thats what we were told and that s the only thing i can think of....good luck..

maybe you p***ed in someones cheerios jk. Rumors say you can go up to the schedulers with gifts (pizza ect) and they are usually nice to you.

My captain told me today, when I call them to tell them that "I don't want to fly" because thats when they use the heck out of you and if I dont want to fly then to tell them that "I want to fly a lot"

:-)

Yeah that's ridiculous there is still a 2 week backup between indoc and systems for some guys. They have cut the schedules way down for a couple of months which is giving them time to catch up with hiring. On another note they are trying to hire 20-24 every two weeks and the last class had 14. As soon as december comes they will be short again. The Union is even bringing picketing to job fairs which ASA goes and management has gone to the union asking for higher new hire pay to attract more guys. The union said no to this because that obviously wouldn't be fair to the entire pilot group. Lot's of Labor issues going on right now but when ASA gets a new contract life will be much better (as if you guys didn't know that).

One more thing, the average flight hours for the last class was more around 750-800, only a couple of 500 hour guys so they are still being somewhat selective and sending people home from the interviews. Take that how you will, could mean they are getting enough applicants but that's not my opinion.

:cool:
I am gonna bid reserve next month.
Since all the lines are horrible.
Don't forget that the reason we no longer have 3 days trips
is because our VP of flight OPs asked crew planning not to build them anymore, he told them that he liked 4 days better.
Result: Most crew are spending 2 days on most 4 days, in a hotel doing nothing.
Efficiency, I don't think they are looking for it.
They just trying to put tressure on the senior line holder so they quit, and make life easy for new hires so they don't quit.
Now that make sense!!!!!

Propjet:eek:

yea Kangaroo, Im in that class w 14 people, great bunch of guys 4ATR, 10 CRJ, I mthe most Junior on the RJ and the 6 most Jr. in the class are all getting a week off starting tomorrow since they are backed up.... but i agree with you, it lll help them to catch up on things, however when the schedules come back with 400+ flights again im sure they will be utilizing everyone and maybe be possibly short again, who knows you can never tell in this industry, but I do like it here so far, just focusing on training and letting the guys and gals who ve been here a while to take care of labor agreements and contracts etc etc.....ps - yes the avg. hours for our class was like 800TT, I think i was one of the lowest in my clas w another guys we both have alitle over 500TT

So its ok to pay new hires poverty wages until everyone gets a raise? I'd think everyone would be for getting that initial pay up. I know I'd be ****ed at the senior guys if they decided that it wasn't fair to take first year pay from $20k to $28k or so. I think the union is being shortsighted on that one.

Now if the wages had a more linear relationship, I would agree with them completely. Giving the new guy another $5/hr makes a much bigger difference to him than the CA making $60+/hr.

The company has had 5 years to get a good new contract in which the new hires are adequately paid. The union is doing exactly what they should be doing. Everyone knows that new hires should be paid more. Not attracting new hire pilots gives the union leverage. If the company needs to fix the contract, then, for the love of all that's good, let them fix the ENTIRE contract. As a pilot, you should know that the union is working for YOU. Why don't you help them out by supporting them. Every ALPA airline union wants to pay new hires more. When the company also wants to do this, that is when the union and the company can work together to improve conditions for all pilots. If the company isn't willing to work with the union, then focus your anger on the company, where it belongs.

Cbire 880
You are the shortsighted one.
The reason the UNION didn't agree on this is because we have been in negotiations for 5 years and we are at impasse, not because they don't want new hires to make more money.
And yes it is unfair to all the guys who have been busting their ass for years with 1998 pay rates not to have a raise while new hires get it.
The new hire pay raise is a bargain chip for contract negotiations. Contract that will enhance life for everyone, new hires and line holders.
Propjet

Airlines are VERY seasonal...summer's over so business is starting to drop off. If you're not getting called now, you'll probably get OCT and early NOV off too.

But by late NOV, holiday travel will be on and all the pilots who timed out will be sitting home by the fire...you might just get your wish then :eek:

An airline could easily appear to be overstaffed right now, but actually be understaffed for the holidays. Since they can't just hire pilots seasonally, they have to stock up in advance, especially if they overwork us early in the year and get time-outs.

Gotcha.....totally understandable. The only thing I worry about since I just got on reserve is the 100hrs in 120 days. Since my IOE was only a little over 30 hours I still got some time to work up here. Does anyone know when that 120 days actually starts? I suppose that would clarify it.

Mregan, what is the first year pay again?

You have been in negotiations for 5 years. Unfortunately, management has indefinate patience with these matters since you have to just keep working.

I don't know the details of the current ASA contract with respect to work rules(which we all know make a huge difference in total compentation). Based on their pay scale alone, it appears that ASA is one of the better paid regionals after the first year. What concerns me more is the inability of airlines to recruit quality new hires due to the brutal cost of entry into this career. I have the same concern at my company. We really are scrapping the bottom of the barrel. The question is at which point will we start to lose contracts because of our inability to properly staff?

Its all a big shell game in the end, but the "pay raise for us all" mentality really worries me when it comes to negotiation. Again, there is a big difference between making under $20k a year and those making $60k and up. The difference being that you can support a family and adequately protect yourself financially on the latter.

I firmly believe that by recruiting higher quality pilots who may be more inclined to see their regional as slightly more than a stepping stone (you never know when you will get stuck), the entire pilot group will benefit from more active involvement and a sense of ownership in their airline. The standard SJS sufferer just wants to fly the shiny jet and will do anything for it. Those types do nothing to help with contract negotiations.

Maybe I'm wrong and that's not the best approach, but I'm willing to debate it civilly with anyone who's interested.

Edit: Wow that was a long one!

If /when I make the jump, that is TOTALLY my evil plan. Time out for the holidays when I hold a line. The wife would love that. Then again, I would be forced to (gulp) go shopping and decorate. Decisions, decisions....

you state that Asa is one of the best paid regional: where do you get your facts? It is actually one of the lowest. Now look at duty rigs and average flown hours at regionals before you answer my question.
So you think that by raising only first year rates by a few dollars, will attract quality people. What happens to the quality people when their first year is over?
You think we will loose contract because airline cannot staff. You are wrong again, because pilot shortage = pay raise and better bargaining power.
I would rather have you making 60K in your first year if it was possible.
But airlines have to raise the bar at all levels if you want to have a future in this industry.
You will get your raise in your first year and they will discard you after a few years. We are UNION and we fight for all.
I totally agree that we should attract the best pilots. But this is going to happen with a consistent well thought contract that benefits all pilots across the board, not with only a little raise for new hires.
I know where you come from and I understand your frustration. I was there myself. You have got the choice, If ASA first year pay doesn't satisfy you, then go elsewhere.
Propjet.

You guys at ASA going to get a retro check after this contract is finalized?

This has always been one of the big problems at ASA. There is no transparency in scheduling, especially with those on reserve. Because of this, the situation is ripe for bribery and kick backs. When I was there I would go over a month without being called. No kidding. I finished IOE on the ATR in October 2000. My first flight as a PIC was in December- over a month. I almost did not meet my 120 day minimums. Meanwhile, pilots junior to me would max out each month. I overheard one of these pilots talking in the crew lounge about the different things that schedulers liked in exchange for flying; she would buy this one pizza, that one candy, another one actually liked a little cash. I wanted to grab her and beat the **** out of her.
Another time I was awarded a relief line with... 0 hours of flying. The entire month on reserve, "working" T-Day. A pilot junior to me got a relief line with 80 hours, T-Day off. When I called to complain, good old Willy told me he met the letter of the contract- we were both awarded relief lines. Nothing said my relief line had to have more flying.
This MUST be fixed in the contract.

Every September it slows down at ASA; so enjoy sitting around in the crashpad because things ramp up in the fall. You will get busy.

ThreeGreens is correct and scheduling does respond well to pizza, just use some tact. Since you have so much time on your hands walk into scheduling and deliver food yourself. They're going to give the flying to someone, you just gotta convince them that it might as well be you.

Besides, you'll be off reserve a lot sooner than my class was. You're much more golden than you think buddy.

First year pay is currently $19.02/hr, going up to $34/hr the second year. They tell us, if the contract is ever finished, first year pay may go up to $23/hr. I'm not holding my breath over that though...

You know as much as I don't condone bribery I would at least like to head up there and talk to them. And I would do it in a heartbeat, that is if I knew where to go. I suppose they are up in the GO? Any specific loc?

If you're worried about your 120 hours, wait til you have about 2 months left, then call your training scheduler. Tell them you're worried about meeting your 120 hours, they will put you on a few 4 days to get you your time.

Geeez, I've never heard so many guys b!tch about NOT having to work! Oh no, so much free time on my hands, what am I ever going to do?:D

I really don't know anything about ASA's workrules and I know how they can dramatically change the compensation picture (e.g. XJT vs RAH). I would glady take a small or no raise in exchange for better work rules (trip/duty rights and min day).

What will drive your management to the bargaining table though? They know that there is still a solid supply of 250 hour wonders and we can't strike. How can we bargain in the environment? What about negotiating minimum experience in the next contract?

sitting reserve and not getting called? I just got off a 4 day at ASA with three 5-leg days in a row and I can barely type this right now I am so exhausted. Sounds like I'll be bidding reserve next month, I could use some time off. These 4 days blow as@!

I will second that! I was considering applying due to the quick commute but that gives me second thoughts. :confused: I was thinking that if I can get in now then when the contract is signed I would be in good shape. If I did get hired would I likely find another ASA guy that would want to split an appartment for 6 months or so. I hate the idea of crew pads. Brotha needs some space. ;)