Aircraft Q
 

Guys and Gals, I hate to start another aircraft thread but this one needs to be done as it is somewhat unique.

As most of you know I interviewed and was hired by Colgan this past Friday. I got the call today from them saying that based on my current hours and interview they want me to be in the first class for the Q (and I do know the pay sucks, but every regional not counting Horizon sucks for pay)

I originally applied to Colgan because of the MHT base and the one year upgrade in the SF340 but this kind of changes things..maybe.

My wife and I are closing on our first home in southern NH on Oct 1st and I am unable to start training until Nov 1st because of the things I need to do with my home. The first saab class I could make would be the 27th of Nov which would put me 3 classes back in seniority but the first class I can make with the Q would be early nov and I would be 1 of 10 FOs in that first class which would obviously give me pretty good seniority and probably zero reserve and the pick of the line as more FOs get trained.

I was not offered the saab as an option but could probably turn down the Q and get it anyway and attend 3 classes from now and just wait until MHT came avail and be based 30 minutes from home.

I want to fly the Q because It would be nice to be part of something new and exciting with the company and my friend flies one for horizon and cant say enough good things about it but of course the cons are equal to the pros.

so to make a long story short the pro con list is.

PROS
new airframe
seniority and the ability to bid a good line and possible base if they come up in the future
better captain pay (no idea when upgrades would run, I know 3000 TT)

CONS
based out of EWR
would have to commute
would take 2-3 years to upgrade
would be on FO pay for longer which would balance out the better CA pay


I dont really know what to ask you guys but all I want to know is do you think the chance to be top 10 in seniority in that airframe could possibly provide a good enough QOL over having the chance to be based 40 miles from home home in MHT. I guess I dont know what to do. Take the Q and the class date or try to negotiate the SAAB?

sorry for the long rambling posts but its time to make some decisions here and I havent made other flight related decisions alone and Im not starting now

Just make sure you fly it gear down and with the gear pins installed.

landing gear is a crutch. Im a real pilot

well the upgrade might not be an issue cause i know you can bid to upgrade into the saab which would keep the upgrade time around a year or so for ya, the seniority in airplane would def be a huge plus especially if your commuting

that is interesting to hear. Being on the fence there is one recurring theme and that is seniority is everything and I think it would probably be foolish to hold off and be 90 lower on the list in the Saab where I could be no lower then 10 (providing I am the youngest in the class) in the Q

thank you for your input

Just remember that they need you more than you need them. If you tell them you are only interested if you get the 340 I'm sure they will give it to you. It's only my opinion (others feel free to comment), but I would try to get the Saab. You will get the MHT base before you know it and will be home 7 nights a week + your drive up rt 101 to Manch will be a piece of cake. If you do the morning shift, you'll show up at 5am and be home by 2pm, and then have 3 or 4 days off in a row.

Other points:
-FO pay is the same regardless of aircraft
-You would have to commute
-Have to get a crashpad in Newark (on the same pay)
-Slower upgrade

I would try to get the saab 340, upgrade on it, and then transition to Q400 captain if you really want to fly it. Again just my opinion. Give me a call tomorrow if you want - take care

Congrats on the offer, usmc-sgt! I got the offer today, too. Got the 11/7 class for the Q. Are you the young guy with the marine corp belt buckle who drove in? If so, I think I know who you are - I'm the 40-year-old guy who rode over to drug testing with you along with the really tall guy from Texas. Anyway, for me being based in EWR is a huge plus. I hope to see you in training if you decide to take the Q.

quality of life above anything else. commuting will get nasty especially this winter where you live and all the delays and cancellations.

If your going to commute to newark. Get a job with express jet!

Agreed. Upgrade time will probably be the same, you'll get paid more and be treated better

Ask SAAB and he will tell you things are a little scary with Newark and XJET.

Upgrade will not take as long as everyone thinks. Most of the Cpts for the Q are senior Saab Cpts and most are looking to fly it for a year to get the experience and then move on. Another group of Cpts are older guys who want to fly the Q for a year or two and retire. There are few Cpts on the Q who plan on flying it for years to come. And remember, that there may be more Q's coming in IAH and United will want some as well.

I would take the Q if I was coming in for training. Even a two year upgrade is shorter than any other airline 70+ seat plane.

Whatever you do, good luck.

One other thing that may be a con. New aircraft in the fleet often have teething problems. MX isn't familiar with them just yet and you may be cancelling more flights than you'd like to.

Does Colgan have a seatlock? If not you could always bid back to the Saab down the road if you could stick it out commuting for a while.

If it were me, I'd go for quality of life first. The pay's all the same (it sucks) do what puts the least amount of stress on you and your family.

How so? I'm leaning pretty heavily toward just going with the Q400 with Colgan, but I also have an interview scheduled for October 15 with XJET. (I'm planning on cancelling all my other interviews, as being based at EWR is a VERY STRONG positive for me, and Colgan and XJET are the only ones who offer that as a possibility as far as I know.) I'm scheduled for the 11/7 class with Colgan. I can't imagine getting a much-earlier class from XJET if I'm not even interviewing until mid-October. I figure not having to sit reserve, having seniority on the Q, and pretty much knowing I will have EWR out of training are all pretty strong positives. What am I missing? I'm also pretty eager to be able to get on to the majors, being a 40-year-old - would XJET provide me with a fast-enough upgrade path to make it faster than Colgan to the majors? Also, does it make much difference to the majors if you flew an ERJ or a Q400? I'm curious for everyone's feedback.

There is nothing like driving to work. In my mind, there is no reason to take the Q, go with the S340. In 6 months you'll be getting done with a crapy 4 day trip, and have only 2 days off, then be back. If you can live in base and do locals, you have it made! 4 day trips suck! There a wast of time! Live in Base!

Thanks guys, CubCaptain...I will call you in the next day or so.

Sounds like a tough choice..It seems like it is pretty much split 50/50. The only thing that I really dont like about the saab is just that I wouldnt be able to attend until three classes from now in late Nov would would hurt my seniority but other than that it is all the same.

Pip, could you explain seatlock? Flyguyniner mentioned that I could potentially hit upgrade mins and seniority could come up where I could just jump from the Q to the saab as a CA, is that what you mean? Either way I am looking at a one year commitment so it can never be that bad, Ive done worse things for a year.

Thanks again guys..I have a week to decide so its not the biggest hurry.

No Out-Station basing for the Q?
 

I was under the impression the Q was going to be Out-Station basing like the SAAB? Also If EWR is going to be a base for you guys, Im not bashing here but be cautious, do you guys have a Commuter clause? Newark is tough to get in and out of, If you are going to commute on the Q I am sure youll have no problem becuase its your company and the amount of seats, but if its an Expressjet a/c or CAL your going to be the last on the list. This is one of those situations where a good contract makes your life a lot better. We have a 11 hr domicile rest that says if we get done later than planned and its within 12 hrs they pay protect you and take you off the trip, I remember a lot of instances where I got done late at Colgan and I would get reduced rest.

PS In the future EWR is going to shrink for XJT, however I think with CLE getting some more flying back it will work itself out, there are a lot of senior CLE folks that are based in EWR, and to be honest if people were able to go where they truly wanted EWR would probably always be the most junior. I think it will be interesting to see how the Q ops works out the first few months, I am sure it will have its problems,, new airplane, new airport, its expected, but if QOL is important to you and the pay is the same, I would void the Q...........


Also as far as the eqiptment is concerned a Q is nice, but its still not a "jet" I am not saying one is harder to fly than the other or any less sophishticated but its in the same "category" as the SAAB, and honestly airlines dont care what you fly, they care who walks your stuff in.............

I don't know if you would be able to turn down the Q to fly the Saab. I helped a buddy get hired a while back (year ago or so) at Colgan. He wanted to fly the Saab so he could be based at home in HEF. They offered him the 1900, he said he wanted the Saab to stay at home. They told him 1900 take it or leave it. He's not working at Colgan.

As for outstation basing, don't depend on that. It is going away. We opened up LGA as a base to cover flying to MDT and when we took the beech out of LEB we added those lines to LGA. Next month ITH is closing as a crew base, and that was one our old staples as a base. Looking at the bids, they're also taking some flying away from CHO next month and putting it in LGA so they may be next on the list. It really looks like we're gonna be a hub based oepration sooner than later.

You know, I agree with a lot of what you said, but its kind of disappointing that so many are so eager to fly it for those pay rates...................

if you have the times i would apply to xjt. If you dont have the time you will still need the mins to upgrade which will be hard to get if MX is cancelling a decent amount of flights due to teething problems, the weather in newark is crap, or the commute didnt work out. The new airplanes will have lots of little gremlins to be worked out and i have heard colgan works you pretty hard. xjt has a good contract and you wont be flying to the same 10 airports over and over again. Also are they going to have 4 day trips or mostly day trips? The lack of per diem could cut your paycheck by 500 bucks a month. the road to the majors isnt going to be made shorter at colgan you will just get treated a lot worse then any other company. This might be a stretch but go to CHQ or REP for the quick upgrade if you want to fly something larger then 50.

to the person who asked if xjet's class date can get you in quicker: they can but maybe not now. I interviewed on a wednesday and started monday but i have heard that they are slowing things down and putting people into a pool for two weeks now... just a thought.

There will not be a seatlock on the Q, meaning you will not be stuck as a Q FO for a certain period of time, however there will be an equiptment lock...12 months. Also, upgrade for the Q stands at 3200 TT which they may lower to 2700.

The Q will not have day trips, they we all be multiday trips. When I started I liked the idea of per diem and staying in hotels, now I am glad I can come home eveynight. Yeah, the per diem is nice but it is up to the individual.

If I'm reading correctly, the majority of the reasons you applied to Colgan in the first place would be null and void if you took the Q (home basing, quick upgrade, etc).

Here's my question...if you're an FO on the Q, why can't you upgrade to the SF340 in 9 months when you're seniority can hold it? Or am I missing something here...

Well Colgan used to be merit based upgrade, so people used to upgrade out of seniority order, again this is how it USED TO BE I think it has since changed, and from a company stand point why would they do that, now they have to train somebody on the Q to replace the guy that left to go to the SAAB

Upgrade is Senority based. Also, there is a 1 year equiptment lock so you are not going to upgrade to Capt on Saab after 8 months FO on the Q...

You are allowed to bid up but you can not bid down. Example is after a year a Q FO could bid on a Saab Cspt position, however a Q Capt could not bid to be a Saab Capt or a Saab Capt to be a Beech Capt.

i'm based in cho and it doesnt look like they took any flying away from our base, its all the same schedule as usual

It does make a difference to me that I could bid over to SF CA in a year if the Q was not what I had hoped. With multi day trips I will actually like it better since I wont be home based anywhere I would rather be hotel based then crashpad based especially if I end up with an overnight in BOS, MHT, PWM, PVD I could run home because all of those with the exception of PVD are less than 50 miles from my home so I am hoping the seniority I will have in the Q could bid me a good line with a possibility of an overnight in one of those airports if they exists which would help out a little bit.

I have to admit it is not what I originally intended as my master plan when I applied to Colgan but every now and again you get a curveball when you were expecting a heater. The more I look at it and listen to most of your advice I think its worth swinging for the fence with this one. Its one year and at the very least it will be "interesting" in a sense with the new change and the new plane and the growth.

Thank you again for all of your info..keep it coming if you have more to add because as you see I have done alot of research but research only goes so far and I need experience to step in.

The seat lock and equipment lock is new to me and I had not heard that and it makes the deal a little sweeter if the Q is the worst thing to ever happen to me I could still bid possibly CA when available.

someone mentioned my times, I think I posted it somewhere but I am around 1100 now so if they dropped the mins to 2700 tt then It is not all that far away if I could do 800 or so a year hopefully, especially if I bid right so it would be less than two years. I plan on instructing a little on the side one day a week for a block or two because I enjoy it and my father owns an airplane that is 5 miles from my house so that will pad my hours to help me reach the TT a little sooner maybe 1-200 hours more a year.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate you all doing your best to think this through with me and help me out. Thats what this site is all about

I wouldnt have normally posted this but I figured it hasnt been visited yet and look on the bright side, at least I didnt ask prop or jet which is better

if u instruct on the side keep it on the DL, its totally against company regs

who said anything about instructing...not me

you must be hearing things

Yeah I would never do that either....................:rolleyes: