I think you have an excellent thing going for you, and I think it is a great idea to build up the savings account. Also, unless your goal is to ultimately fly for the airlines, if your boss is looking to buy a jet, and you see opportunity to move up in your current company, that is something to look into. It may be a place to stay in the long run, especially if it would offer great pay, and a stable career.

I am hoping to put myself in your current situation. I am trying to get a job at a local charter op. working the line. As I earn my ratings, and build time, I'm hoping to be able to pick up some SIC time. They fly Barons, KingAir 200, 350, as well as they have a few jets.

As far as an aviation degree is concerned. I currently attend LSU. I am thinking of majoring in Geography with a focus in Geographical Information Systems. The reason I was contemplating an aviation degree, is I live only a few hours from a couple of aviation schools here in Louisiana; ULM, LA Tech, and NorthWestern. ULM, in particular, is closest, and has won a few awards for their aviation department. I have basically decided against this, however, due to all of yall's advice.

I have an interest in Geography, weather, and computers, and I think a Geography degree focusing in Geographical Info. Systems (computers), and meteorology, would be a pretty good degree, and the weather portion would also go along with flying. There are also some pretty good jobs out their in Geopgraphy, in particular, the GIS field.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice!

Irish
 

Irish,

Sorry if I come off a bit strong, however this is a topic that I have some background with. I can't sit by and remain idle while people throw away their parents money on a four year flight party. The whole concept of having a vocation artificially inflated into a discipline is laughable. Why not introduce a major in stock car racing? Perhaps we could develop a masters degree for professional bass fishing? To major in aviation not only cheats yourself out of a real education but weakens your background as an aviator.

Though my message might be negative I still believe that it is truthful and constructive. We might just save a career here.

SkyHigh

I am sorry but I need to chime in here because some people are incredibly stupid when it comes to their information on how EXPENSIVE specialty aviation schools are. I currently attend ERAU onlineand they really are not that expensive when you compare them to any cal state or uninversity (I agree that the classes on campus are pretty darn expensive though). Classes are about $530 plus books so people need to do there homework because they looks like idiots when they don't know what they are talking about.

Nick
 

Nick,

I think they are referring to real degrees and not to mail order ones. Why California Pacific offers a BA for $3600 and a masters for $2400. What a deal?

SKyhigh

$530 per credit hour or for a 3 cr class? Also, it is important to consider how much you are paying for your flight training specifically. Some instruction and rental rates at large institutions are way too high.

What is the rate an instructor charges at Riddle?

SkyHigh-
Doesn't look like you have nothing better to do than surf the internet and pick your a$$. From the readings of your previous postings you sound llike a bitter old man who has nothing better to do on their weekends than bash people on the internet who are trying to get important information with their careers. You are such a dork!

KiloAlpha-

The classes online are actually a little more expensive than the satalite campus( a little stupid if you ask me and yes I actually attend both online and satalite classes). I am not sure on the pricings for rentals, but I heard they were pretty expensive (I just attended my local FBO for my ratings). Also, how did you score that current job as a SIC for that KING Air? Like I said, I have been getting some MERLIN III with dash 10's for some great experience, but I am looking for something that will allow me to pick up more time. Any suggestions?

The plane I fly has been modified with -10's by National Flight down in Lakeland. I like them better than Pratt's because they're insanely loud :cool: and everyone knows you are coming lol.

My best advice would be to actually go talk to the person who is purchasing the plane and the main pilot that will be flying it. If you see them around the airport, just start BS'n with them about aviation or some other topic you frequently overhear them talking about. Maybe he has a boat or fancy car, who knows...

Let them get to know you and your personality, cause more than likely that is what got me my job and is what will potentially get you the job you are currently pursuing.

Also, I know what you mean about getting charged more for online classes. The univerity I go to charges an additional $150 per class for the luxury of studying at home.

While I agree I just wanted to get the point across....EDUCATE dont attack people. If you dont think its the right decision, explain why and offer a solution. When you turn it into an attack you dont get anywhere besides getting people offended and ****ed off. :)

Dont know about ridde...but UND I remember paying around $65/hr for a brand new warrior (double stacked Garmin 430s etc.) and something like $35/hr for an instructor. That was a great price considering your equipment and how much training your instructor had had. Many places out here in the SW you will pay $65-95 just for an old 172 for an hour.

The G430's are getting replaced with glass (Avidyne), and maybe G1000.
Man i went home this summer and rented a 172 (1976), for $105 an hour. They also offer S20, but that was around $180, and you had to get special training. I guess one of the good things about UND, is that the prices are very reasonable.

I also think the price of the CFI went up to $39 this year.

Kiloalpha
 

You talk a lot of fancy game for a guy flying right seat in a 90 model king air.
since you have all the answers- what will you say in an interview when they ask you who was calling the shots when you have all the PIC king time logged?

Its not cool when someone unexperienced asked a question in the right forum area and they get p@$%ed on for it. keep it up and you'll see how far you get. its a small world and everyone knows everyone.

so for now put the gear down junior.:D

Irish
 

Irish,

You are right. I'll try to do better.

Skyhigh

People like SkyHigh crack me up. It shows me how much you really don't know. Since, I just have a degree in aviation equal to a bass fishing degree and can't do anything with it if I can't be a pilot. This forum is to post your experience and knowledge and all you do is attack other peoples post and opinions. I do not care if you are some 20yr Captain....I could easily get a job outside of being a pilot with other companies with my aviation degree. I think half of us in here if not more would just like to do something in the aviation industry if we couldnt fly as a pilot. I know the NTSB, Boeing, Aviation Insurance companies, and the airline's corporate side hire if you have an aviation degree. I know they hire you even if you do not have an aviation degree but I am thinking if they consider this equal to a bass fishing or stock car driving degree they wouldn't be hiring us. Going to aviation univ. has its pros and cons just like everything else out there.

Or you could do what I did. Don't go to college at all and end up at the major that most of you with a college degree are applying to!

As long as you have a job with that airline for a looong time that would be ok or if everything hit the fan and you lost that job then hopefully you have another gifted talent. But the experience going through college is great though. That rocks though if you got rt in with a major.

Now im just going to chime in. Sure i dont have the experience as most of you (if not all) as i am still a senior in high school. However i will be attending ERAU in PR next year. i used to work at an FBO that intructs with 6 aircraft...all cessnas. The cheapest price we had was $95 (1972 C172L) an hr and $40 for instruction. Now i know (or am assuming) that UND's and ERAU's cannot be too much higher than that (if theyre even that high). Also we had a twin ( C310I )that was $240 an hr...and i certainly hope that UND or ERAU prices are lower for a twin.

Taylor

ERAU's flight costs, as far as instructor and airplane are not an issue to me. You will find some places cheaper than others, but for the most part, rental rates, and instuctor rates are identical, or at least, within a given range, anywhere you go. You will probably spend $20K+ for your ratings alone at ERAU, and a local FBO, although some local FBOs are a bit cheaper.

The issue to me with ERAU, is that is costs over $100K, or close to that in tuition alone.

After thinking about the whole situation, and listening to advice, I've come to this conclusion;

Certain career fields require a certain degree. Most people who desire to work in a specific career field, major in that field. This is no different for some pilots. Aviation, however, is not a field that requires a specific degree. All that matters is having a degree.

You can get your ratings from a local FBO, and major in something else from a local college, and spend a 1/3, or even a 1/4 of what you will spend at ERAU overall. Getting your ratings from a local FBO or ERAU; neither one is better. The ratings are the same in the eyes of the FAA, and the airlines, afterall, they are looking at total time, and experience, not where you got your ratings from. And, it is always good to have a backup.

As far as the benefit of being able to get on with a regional with 600TT as compared to 1000TT for someone who didn't go to ERAU, or UND. In my opinion, that 400+ extra time the non ERAu or UND grad has, before the airline job, makes him a more experiences, and better pilot. More than likely that extra time was gained instructing, and many here have said that instructing is some of the most valuable, and quality time the gained.

Stock Car
 

My point about the stock car degree is that aviation is a skill and not a discipline. It does not deserve the level of study that a BS degree is intended for. Universities are businesses just like anything else and they have learned that they can sell a worthless aviation degree to kids looking to avoid having to get a real education. You are just guessing about the NTSB, boeing and the like. I am sure you will get your chance to find out for yourself someday. Aviation degrees are about worthless.

SkyHigh

Skyhigh...don't waste your time...these guys have bought the magazine ads and are going to shell out their hard earned money to get a job at the NTSB with their BS in Aviation / Aeronautical Science....


-LA

You are just guessing about the NTSB, boeing and the like. I am sure you will get your chance to find out for yourself someday. Aviation degrees are about worthless.

SkyHigh[/QUOTE]

I actually had a job offer with an aviation insurance company and NTSB doing field investigations of crashes with my " worthless" degree. I chose to stay with flying because of how important senority is and getting in as soon as possible. Again, that's your own opinion about how worthless an aviation degree is but you can still get jobs outside of being a pilot with it. How many people are in their jobs today that have nothing to do with their major....a lot. I had to take engineering, science related courses, human factors courses, and computer courses......so how is this not a real degree? It is not just taking a class on regs or parts of an airplane class that you might think. I bet you would be amazed if you knew of people that majored in aeronautical science and got to where they did...... to start Jimmey Doolittle....wait you might not know who that is.

We are on page 9, and honestly it does not seem like we progressed with this topic. I wonder if we are helping the poor guy, or did we confuse him even more?

aeronautical science and got to where they did...... to start Jimmey Doolittle

It was aeronautical engineering - he happened to get he 1st PhD given in the field in the USA....There is a big difference btwn aero science and aero engineering....

-LA

flyinhigh
 

flyinhigh,

Sure you are right I guess. When I think back I too was offered a job once as a commercial truck dispatcher. I'll bet it was because of my aviation degree !!
Miracles do happen. Keep the dream alive and don't stop proudly telling people that you have a degree in aviation. It will wear off someday.

SkyHigh

Skyhigh-

Great Post....want a cookie for that one? Ever thought it just might be the person themselves that couldn't get a better job such as yourself with that degree?

I have actual experience with this subject.
 

I have first hand experience with this subject. I have a degree in Aeronautical Science from ERAU. I currently am an ATP with a small airline.
I got out of aviation a couple years ago and had to search for a job in other industries. Within the first month of searching, I had 4 interviews. I got a job with a base pay of $38,000 and a guaranteed raise after 6 months, also medical, dental, vision benefits. Also they offered free college after 6 months of employment.
It may not have been a $100,000 dream job, but the starting pay was higher than any airline would pay a pilot with no experience in the industry. For a new hire, I thought the pay and benefits were pretty good. It was not hard to get interviews at all.
I even got an interview with a financial company offering $60,000 base pay + commission. I did not get that job because the woman competing with me had prior experience in the industry, but she had no degree at all and ultimately the boss decided she was more qualified than me (which she was). That was proof that you don't need a degree to get a good paying job.
The point is that most jobs don't require a specific degree.
You may have to work for a few years to make a real good salary, but if you are polite, intelligent, and determined, you will do fine.

Even though I don't have any Kilo Alpha bashing to do, I still have a few cents to throw into the pot. I'm a junior at Middle Tennessee State, and an aerospace major. Why? Because it's the only way here to get priority on flight labs. Why am I at MTSU? Because it has a growing reputation in the industry for training, and I pay less than one third what my best friend from high school is paying at ERAU-daytona. Do I regret majoring in aviation? I honestly haven't been in the field long enough to say. But I have given it much thought. I am minoring is Business Administration, and those credentials are plenty to get into the airport management field. Anyone who wants to argue that one can do so all they want, but I did an internship with a small class C airport authority in high school, and learned much about the field, whats involved, and what it takes. Personally, I wouldn't want to have a career outside aviation, so my present options offered by my degree choices are fine with me. I had been told before I got to college by many fellow pilots that an aerospace degree is pointless. However, I've learned plenty here on topics ranging from aircraft structures to weather to FMS training. It's things that are involved with the career path that I've decided to pursue. Does a professional know as much as possible about their line of work? I certainly hope so. So in a nutshell, I'm fine with my degree because I'm bettering my knowledge and skills in aviation. If you want to double major, I suggest University of Illinois. I believe they have a program that allows you to double major rather efficiently with these thoughts in mind. It's a bit pricey though. Hope some of this helps.

Anyone have info on Colleges that offer degrees in basket weaving?

Speaking as someone who has majored in aviation and who now instructs for a collegiate 141 program, I now realize there are some pros and cons.

Pros:
- Some airlines really like to hire pilots from some specific collegiate aviation programs (as much as it irks the old dogs). This is one hell of a pro if your ultimate goal is an airline job. Most airlines I have looked at hire pilots from specific collegiate programs with much lower minimums than a guy off the street. That is because coming from a collegiate program with a reputation in the industry, you are a known quantity vs. some guy with a business or engineering degree who got his ratings at the local FBO.

-You recieve a much more in depth aviation education, giving you a broad, firm base in the aviation world (of course, this comes at the expense of liberal arts and other non-aviation knowledge you might gain in college).

-Most collegiate programs are very well structured and have very good facilities and equipment. Having done both 61 and 141 instruction as a student and instructor, the structured route definitely saves you time and money.

-Depending on the program, some collegiate programs are run in a similar way to how an airline is run in terms of levels of management and oversight, SOPs, dispatch, etc. which makes the transition that much easier.

Cons:
-I think you miss out on something focusing so hard on aviation. You really have to work to stay connected to the non-aviation world. But if you love prop heads, this may not be that big a deal.

-You are 100% right, if you lose your medical or get furloughed you will have difficulty in the job market outside of aviation. If I could do college over again, I would have done a double major or a minor in some sort of managment field. You can transfer a management degree pretty much anywhere but not so much with aviation.

-The old dogs will hate you cause you'll get a job much sooner than they ever did. You'll need to put on a flame retardent suit before coming on these forums.

-My BS in Aeronautics looks kind of silly hanging next to my girlfriends BS in Mathematics from Stanford.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask

Now my question. I am going to major in Aeronautical Science no matter what. Yes i have read everything in these forums about it and over at jetcareers. I am not closed minded, and in fact read everything and take it to heart. I feel that my greatest chance for success in college is by studying something i enjoy and something i am willing to learn and put lots of time and effort into. However, i was planning on minoring in something like aviation safety. Would everyone here agree for me to switch my minor to either Aviation, Airport, or General Management? I will be attending the PR campus this coming fall and as of now am planning on getting that minor in general management. Good choice? All opinions welcome.

Taylor

Get an engineering degree
 

Aviation is a very volatile industry, and you should be prepared for anything. Remember, Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you are really serious about aviation, get a degree that will help you in aviation, but will also be a backup incase your aviation career turns sour.

Engineering is a great example. I just finished my degree in aerospace engineering. I know all about how airplanes and their respective systems work. This gives me a leg up for flying, and a great option should my flying career take a turn for the worst.