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edik 12-08-2005 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by KiloAlpha
I agree we are going nowhere with this thread :D.

Also, weight is not the reason it does not require a crew. A 200 is over 12.5 and can also be single pilot as can many small jets; CJ1 for example.

Oh ooops,

by the way how did you manage to land a job flying while you are in school.

KiloAlpha 12-08-2005 05:48 PM

I was wrong, I just looked and a 200 MTOW is exactly 12.5. But anyway, I personally do not know the reason some aircraft are certified single pilot.

As far as school goes, it has been tough. Fortunately, I have not had to miss too many classes to go fly trips. I have Tues/Thurs classes. I spent a week in Florida for training on the King Air and it was tough to get caught up in my course work. Me being in school was of concern to my now current employer, but I assured him that my schooling would never interfere with his flight program.

directbears 12-09-2005 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by KiloAlpha
First off a King Air 90 does not require a two man crew so I am not and can not be logging SIC time.. thanks for illustrating my point about understanding important regs :cool:. .

Wow! You really come across as an arrogant person. From reading some of your other posts, you don't seem to know as much about the aviation industry as you think you do. So let me try to set you straight on a few things, like you ďtriedĒ to do so arrogantly with the others in this thread.

Iím guessing that you are flying part 91 so you are correct, you cannot log SIC time (especially if there has been no flight and ground training for that aircraft)

If you are flying part 135, it all depends on the type of 135 you are conducting. I'm not an aviation genius (because I have better things to do with my time than to TOTALLY immerse myself in it), but I do believe it all depends on the type of 135 that you are conducting that stipulates whether it requires a SIC. I believe if it is "scheduled" 135 then you require a SIC, if it is "non-scheduled" or "on-demand" 135 flying it does not require a SIC. I'm sure some of the current 135 guys and gals on this board can enlighten you and me on that.

However, I believe weight has nothing to do with it. A/C weight only matters in regard to needing a type rating for the aircraft, and the type cert for that A/C determines the SIC requirment. However, I believe there might be some exemptions to that, but I could be totally wrong about that. Again, maybe some of our current 135 friends could help YOU and me out here.


With that said, I am logging PIC every other leg; so for the record that is turbine PIC if you're keeping track. Kinda a big deal in this industry, dont worry someday you will find that out.
Someday you will find out as well. PIC turbine is not worth much to the "bigs" if the A/C does not require a type and/or it is not part 121 PIC. That I DO know about, so get a clue genius.


Plus that little turbine PIC dealy I was telling you about. :eek:
Again, not really worth much, since itís in an A/C not requiring a type and is probably part 91 flying. Keep it up though. Just don't get too bummed out when you find out how worthless it is.


** Oh yeah, one last thing, my current company is looking to buy a jet
Now, if you manage to fly that as PIC, it could be worth something since ALL turbojet A/C require a type, but it still does not look as good as part 121 or even part 135 flying.

Have a good one!

love2fly 12-09-2005 01:39 PM

Ya, it really does sound like your trying to justify yourself with all that you know and how great the king air is. I also remember you saying that you were only logging like 200 hours a year, that doesn't look to good to most 121 carriers because you never fly. I am not going to dog on that b/c I hardly fly myself, but I am not going to bash everyone else to make myself bigger (and I'm not bashing you by the way :)) Since you grad in a week which is awesome (im almost 2 yrs still) take that bigger twin time and apply at a regional now and stop wasting your time flying 200 hrs a year. Remember, like said above, you may have 3000 hrs Turbine PIC, but a 121 carrier will take a 121 guy with 1000 hrs turbine PIC in a heart beat before they will a 91 or 135 guy. Just food for thought, but good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[email protected] 12-09-2005 04:14 PM


I think that you just came off a little too much "I know it all kind of statement." Me myself am just a little jeleous that you can get that much type of time at such a young time in your carear. The guys that I am flying with just brought home a Merlin III with dash 10's today as their person plane so I am excited to start learning the systems as well, but I will not be getting that much time in it (maybe 100-150 hours a year). No matter what, experience is experience in my opinion no matter how often you're flying (unless it's under 50 hours/year). Congrats on the degree.


Irish Pilot 12-09-2005 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by edik
Personally i dont think majoring in aviation is useless. I am currently at UND, and i am getting much better flight education then the people at local FBO's...As for my back up, i am minoring in something outside of aviation, just in case if i were to lose my medical....

My advice would be to NOT major in aviation unless its in mngmnt or something. I am a UND Grad and I can tell you that I have alread seen people fall because of their degree. Many decided to get out of the industry because of how much it can suck right now and they ALL went back to school. You can still fly on the side (or even take flying classes on the side) but I would encourage you to get another education to go with it. far its been my experience "in the real world" that minors are dont plan on that helping much at all...double major if anything. That shows that you were actually interested etc. Not just that you went 80% of the way to try to cover yourself. From what I have seen a minor is only of worth if it supports your major (ie minor in meteorology if you are going to be a aviation grad etc.) Would you want to hire a meteorologist that minored in it? Im sure it happens...but I certainly wouldnt bank on it.

With all due respect to the quote above... its comments like that that make the flight school grads look like aholes in the industry. Like I mentioned I am a UND grad..and Im glad to say that I spent college flying airplanes...HOWEVER...once you get into the industry you will find great pilots come from all different backgrounds.

Yes you are getting a great education at UND...and you get to fly great equipment with usually great instructors. HOWEVER...a little modesty goes a long way in this industry. I suggest you refrain from ever making a comment like that again. Its just embarrassing. In fact I would probably avoid making suggestions like that until you are out into the industry and you see how things finally work.

Ive been to UND...I know what they tell you about the industry...its not exactly accurate kid.

Irish Pilot 12-09-2005 05:22 PM


Originally Posted by directbears
Again, not really worth much, since it’s in an A/C not requiring a type and is probably part 91 flying. Keep it up though. Just don't get too bummed out when you find out how worthless it is.

The type may not be as big of deal as you think...I have seen several people in the past few months leave non type turboprop for MD-80s. I also know a few non typed turboprop pilots in the past few years that have left for DC-10s and 767s. No types. Thats just off the top of my head :)

Irish Pilot 12-09-2005 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by KiloAlpha
What happens when you lose your medical, then what are you gonna do with you big fancy aviation degree... absolutely nothing except teach aviation perhaps. Or I suppose you could the executive fry cook at BK.

Ask the ol' timers who majored in aviation and they will tell you that they wished they majored in something else. I majored in "flight technology" for 2 semester then decided it was a complete waste of time and money. Plus it makes you rather one dimensional, wouldn't you like to know things outside the world of aviation?? There's more out there in this world than lift, weight, thrust, and drag.

I now major in business management and I can guarantee you that when I graduate (1 week yay) I will know more aviation based information than 90% of the guys who come out of a pilot factory. Granted, I have had a lot of training from a former Air Force pilot (now the captain I fly with in the King Air), but the point still remains.

I just cant resist this one. You are seriously one arrogant prick...and especially so for a guy as young and inexperienced as you are. Just a thought for ya...I have known several guys with your attitude towards other pilots and the industry. They all have gotten what was coming to them. You are the type of pilot that the rest of the industry hates to fly with.

BTW I know of a few captains at "the bigs" that got aviation degrees. They studied flight and "flew" all the way through college. It blows me away that you would talk to your fellow pilots like that. How insecure are you? I would suggest you take that degree and shov.....put it to use. I would hate to share a cockpit with you buddy.

(for the record I still dont think a degree in commercial aviation is the best choice...too many eggs in one basket if you know what I mean...just standing up for those of us who did though. :)

edik 12-09-2005 05:43 PM

Irish Pilot,

I guess I see where you are coming from about the whole degree thing. I just dont know what to double major in, i guess i can pick up airport management. I am minoring in Russian, i know thats really not going to do much for me, but I just like the language. I have a question for you, so it does not matter if I went to Aviation school or some other school, people are still going to look at me the same way? Because i much rather be flying back home where there is sun all year round. For the most part I chose UND for it name in the industry and that they offered russian.


PS it says that you are in CA, where at in California you are at?

daytonaflyer 12-09-2005 06:18 PM

An aviation degree is as good as most others
The people who are saying an aviation degree is worthless are incorrect. I started college at the University of Oregon, studying non-aviation related subjects. I later transferred to ERAU and graduated with an aviation degree.
I can tell you first hand that the classes and professors at ERAU were so much better than at the U of O. The students studied harder and more often. The students attended their classes all the time, unlike at the public university where it was regular to have 150 students in a class and only 30 would show up, except for on test days.
The social scene at ERAU was poor, but the education was good.
I got out of aviation for a while after 9/11 and had no trouble finding a job with my degree. Most employers don't really care what degree you have unless it's required for certification ie. accounting, medical, education degrees. As long as you have a bachelors, you are okay. Work experience is what they really want to see.
Now if you are already studying at a non-aviation university, a bachelors from that will be just fine. It will probably save you a lot of money.
If an aviation degree is worthless, you can also say that a business degree is worthless because there are so many people out there that have them; they're a dime-a-dozen and employers could really care less if you have a degree in business admin.

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