New SkyWest vs the Old SkyWest...
 

I got asked the below question on another message board. For those seeking historical perspective to make your final choice regarding Sapa, Alpa, etc thought I would post here.


First let’s be clear, Skywest is not the same airline I hired on with a decade ago. I have watched year after year as management has reduced the benefits of this job while stacking large sums of money into the company coffers. They also paid $400,000,000.00 cash for another airline that they would later use to whipsaw against the pilots that helped raise this money in the first place. How’s that for thanks?! Skywest started out seemingly doing the right thing by its pilots a decade ago. We find ourself in a very different place today, especially the last six years.

If you go back and read most of what I have written here you will see the majority of my remarks are backed up with documents and facts. If someone lies and deserves to be crucified I usual do it with their own words. You see I tend to save things. I have a lot of the memo’s and promises doled out from management over the years including Sapa meeting minutes, quotes from Sapa reps, management promises, etc. Let me tell you something point blank in all soberness…..somewhere along the line the management of Skywest decided it was better for them personally to go another way from how they had previously gone in the past. At some point they decided it was ok to embellish the truth and sometimes flat out lie knowing full well they would later renege on their words. This process started slow but they do it now without hesitation, a straight face and no regret. There is no two ways about it, Skywest management has not been honest with this pilot group. It is born out again and again and this has caused much frustration among the ranks.

Now we have to ask what vehicle has management used to renege on these promises and who was ready and willing to be a part of this process? That vehicle was/is Sapa. I have watched this group, tried to work with this group and been deeply disappointed with this group for some time now. I know Jim B, Mike E, David L, Dave C, Dave A, etc personally. These are not men of high moral character. They are what they are and that is salesmen, opportunists and sell outs. I’ve watched several of these men jump from cushy job to cushy job within the ranks of Skywest, kissing butts along the way to secure what is best for THEMSELVES on a personal basis. They are like rats looking for a warm burrow to sleep in while the rest of the workers are hung out to dry. I do not have any respect for these men. I used to have respect for Mike E, but no longer. I felt bad for the guy when he had heart trouble and lost his medical, that is, until he became a management lackey handing out work rules that affected my daily life in a negative way and gave all the pilots the proverbial “bird” in doing so. I resent the fact that these men carelessly delivered management so many things that have negatively affected my families’ quality of life as well.

Some people who clearly are not in possession of the facts will say, “you knew what you were getting into when you hired on at Skywest, if you don’t like it now you can leave." I DID like the Skywest I hired on with (I am a happy person by nature) and it is NOT the same Skywest today! Frankly I am fed up with how the company has operated and what Sapa has done or undone as the case may be. Many others feel the same way. Even ardent Alpa critics have become frustrated with this downward spiral and the flippant attitude of Sapa and the company when these issues are brought to their attention. These pilots have seen the trust being broken a lot lately and there are new converts to Alpa every day. Then there’s the new guys, some who flew for Mesa and the like, who wanted to believe in the new religion of Skywest….it would take them to the aviation promised land. They don’t want to hear that this place could have some of the same problems of their last regional and yet even less protection to boot. Certainly they do not want to hear from the “old timers” stating the facts about what has happened here and would rather lash out in denial or plug their ears altogether hoping things will improve on their own. They thought for certain Jim Black was honest when he sold them on the evils of Alpa and the benevolence of Skywest management/sapa during basic training/endoc. Sadly they will find out the “new Skywest” is not what they used to read about on those message boards of old.

Regarding Alpa, I have said this many times before and probably will say it again, it is not the answer to all of lifes problems but when compared to Sapa it has a lot more horsepower to work with. It can produce much better accountability and has functions Sapa could never dream about implementing. It contains much better tools to build what should be the gold standard of regional airlines, especially considering how profitable Skywest continues to be post 911. For those not familiar, Skywest has benefited enormously from what happened to the industry after 911, yet they continuously preach financial gloom and doom almost every day and four times a day during pay negotiations. No matter how you slice it Alpa is most certainly better than what we have now. To be honest I don’t care if it does take three or five years to get a new contract. At least the sliding will stop and the upside is we really could set the standard and help raise this industry.

Skywest Inc made over $150,000,000.00 dollars NET PROFIT last year alone and yet they still nickel and dime the employees while at the same blowing the “we have to be competitive” bugle because “we are skating on thin ice here.” Its just plane ridiculous and insulting. They don’t think I listen to the conference calls where they gloat to the investment community about having the best balance sheet in the industry and and the lowest costs with a "union free" work force that loves them, or that I can read the annual report? They have the president of ILFC, the largest aircraft lease company in the world on their board of directors cutting industry leading rates. They prepay on their engine overhauls a year or more in advance to reduce profit sharing money. They have benefited from some good strategic decisions and even they will admit a fair bit of luck. Keep in mind Jerry was originally against regional jets and had to be talked into it by RR. The point to all this is that Skywest for a variety of reasons has competitive advantages beyond the “industry average” wages Jerry told us were the new direction we were going after voting down Alpa in 1999. During this drive he said we would be at or above the top. ASA will not go broke with the wages they just received. Skywest will continue to make more money than they have ever made even if they paid the pilots of Skywest ten percent more, which is what we should have got after a stalled and bad faith bargained pay agreement

Back to your question though, how does Skywest compare to other regionals? Id say measuring today at this very moment they are right in the middle and quickly sliding towards the bottom. Moral at Skywest is at all time lows based on the guys I have flown with and the comments I have heard. The growth at the regionals is going to slow down across the board other than like what just happened two days ago, exchanging for a few more seats on a handful of airframes. The majors are relatively happy with the number of regional units they have deployed now and the market will stay pretty much the same over the next several years. If the work rules suck and the almighty growth can’t be sold by management to take its place it’s going to get ugly. I know you want to believe that Skywest is like the old Skywest but it is not. I likely won’t be at Skywest this time next year but that doesn’t stop me from fighting the good fight for those that will be. The buck stops here. Let’s get on with it.

If you hate working at SkyWest that much, go somewhere else. Try UAL, you know since they're ALPA, they MUST have better work rules and higher morale than us.

What??? Can't somebody try to make things better???

Go somewhere else, SWA may suck. If it does leave, stop looking to ALPA or any union. Your future is in your hands.

This may be the most coherent drunk post ever.

Going somewhere else may not always be the answer when considering how seniority in this business works. Trying to fix what you have is a good approach IMHO. Don't get on the guy for wanting to make positive change.

Debbie Downer
 

Not sure what you found positive in that rant....... sounds like Debbie Downer to me.

Things are certainly relative to each of us. The original poster finds things "bad" compared to his experience at SkyWest in the past.

I compare things in the same way, except my past experience was much like working at a Mesa. I think things (overall) are awesome here.

I rarely encounter a Debbie Downer here like this guy. I can only imagine his demeanor when this 3rd union drive fails. It's good to know he'll be moving on.

If this is low moral I would hate what he would say about other regionals. I came from Comair, there was not too many happy pilots there, and if they were happy it is because they were able to hold a line with 11 days off because they were a Captain on reserve for 8 years. With those whopping 11 days off he got a whole 78 hours of credit too. Grass is always greener on the other side unless A: you haven't lived on the otherside or B: with Americans short term memory they just forget what the other side was like. I agree with forcing a company to "pay up" and give what you deserve, but ALPA??? That is like asking France to help us in the next war.

Asking help from ALPA is like asking france to help in the next war? Now that's funny right there.

Let's keep comparing SKW to Mesa and the other sh!tty regionals so we can feel better about our conditions. GREAT THINKING! That will surely improve things.
And when someone actually exposes how dramatically conditions have been changing at SKW, simply ignore him and tell him to leave.


Tony, even though you just got into SAPA, you sound just like the veteran SAPA propagandists... things are NOT "awesome" here. Is that what you guys talk about at the SAPA meetings? You guys take a great gulp of koolaid and remind each other how much better than Mesa/GoJets/TSA we have it? That would explain the "awesome" resuts SAPA achieved....:rolleyes:

Gee, I haven't even been to a single SAPA meeting yet (first one is Monday and Tuesday), and I've never felt that SkyWest wasn't pretty awesome. Before I even went to the job interview, I asked several folks that I know who work here how they liked it. They all liked it. Now I'm here. I like it, too.

I didn't sign up for SAPA, and then have an epiphany. By the way, SAPA has genuine, honest to goodness ALPA supporters in its ranks, and there's more talk about ALPA currently on the SAPA forum than just about anything else.

And yes, ALPA does represent Mesa. ;)

Just don't forget to vote guys... Yes or No, be sure to vote and please make an informed decision! That does not mean just listening. Read both sides of the issue.

I don't like ALPA, but I am very thankful for the protection they offer.

Best wishes with the vote... and again do vote Yes or No and inform yourself on the issue.

Can you imagine where Mesa would be without any union representation? I wouldn’t be surprised if first year pay was $13/hr and 18 yr CR9 CA was $75.

Remember that JO was the one who said, "as long as there are resumes on my desk, pilots are overpaid."

I’m sure that without a forcible contract he’d take the $173M Mesa’s being sued for out of their labor groups pockets while giving himself a multi-million dollar bonus for saving the airline (LOL!).

there's no such thing as "not voting"
not voting is how you cast your ballot for "no ALPA"

As much as I would like a way to obstain (sp?) and not effect the outcome at all, because I don't feel like I've been at SkyWest long enough to make a completely informed decision, unfortunately I must vote one way or the other because of the NMB voting rules.

Taking a snap shot of any situation and analyzing does not make for a very informed decision. So many new hires look at what they have in front of them and don't understand that things are slowly but surely getting worse, they just can't see it because they haven't been here long enough. Just think of how important the trend vector on the airspeed indicator is. Our work rules are getting wittled away at week by week without us even really knowing it.

ALPA vs. SAPA = Kerry vs. Bush in 2004

I don't really like ALPA, but my conscience won't allow me to support SAPA in any way possible.

Here's a union shop.... 126 removals IN ONE YEAR !

Total approximate workforce, 14,000


TOTAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER ATTRITION
Fiscal Year 2007

RETIREMENTS: 856
RESIGNATIONS: 201
REMOVALS: 126
DEATHS: 10
PROMOTIONS TO FAA SUPERVISORY POSITIONS: 365

TOTAL: 1,558

So, when ALPA fails, whacha gunna do?

By the way, Kerry lost, and Bush is the most labor unfriendly president in a generation. Not sure what your comparison is trying to say.

exactly. so everyone please stop blaming alpa for being shot down every time they tried to flex a little muscle (countless times in the past 6 years).

I dont think the first post on this thread was not to be all negative about the company. I think most of you proved his point when you all jumped on him immediately and said "we have it great here." You do not have it "great." I just cant believe a first year skw pilot is telling a 10 yr skw veteran to get out of my company because bad eggs like you are ruining it. Really? This guy has way more at stake than you. Hes going to stay there. You on the other hand will be gone in 3 years. He deserves to call it his skywest. Please dont compare yourself to low-end regionals, because that is how the race to the bottom started in the very first place. And like Ive said before their unions are actually doing a lot to protect them and at least minimize the abuse, but theyre not getting any help because lately they hardly ever get mediation in their favor (not their fault).

Whether you unionize or not, please dont take anything lying down. You have a perception that you have a great life at skywest, and if you really do think that is the case, then PRESERVE IT. BTW your current pay package DOES NOT preseve your great life there because it incrementally gets worse every year especially with inflation on a huge rise, and your benefits leave much to be desired. Doesnt mean you dont have other good things like profit sharing and all that. I have my own beef with that only because its nothing but a tactic, but hey you guys like that bonus check and thats good, preserve it. And lastly respect the guys who have been there a long time because you all need to be on the same side. Getting pilots to be at ends with each other is of course Union-Busting strategy #1. But you guys wont have to worry about that because it appears youll kill a union before it even gets to your doorstep.

Exactly why I voted for Bush (twice)...lesser of two evils.

I voted for Kerry. The incumbent Bush/SAPA didn't seem to have a sense of responsibility towards the people they represent. Kerry/ALPA organizers at SkyWest seem clueless about how things actually work in the presidency/real union airlines but at they'll be eager to try get things done. Disclaimer: SkyWest ALPA organizers do not represent us, we can vote whoever we want in if ALPA wins.

I don't want this to turn political because I'm flying with a CA this trip that would shoot me if he knew I voted for Kerry :D. I guess I'm just really fed up with SAPA's claims when we all know that they take scraps management is willing to give us and claim them as victories.

Our management at SKW is awesome. Their job is to deliver a good product while keeping costs down (which they do very well). Pilot representation whether it be SAPA/ALPA/teamsters exists to keep to the balance of power by offering protection against totalitarian measures and fighting for better work rules and pay (which SAPA currently achieves mostly because of the benevolence of our management). Niether entity should be much more powerful than the other and idealy they co-exist not as enemies but as neccesary parts of a healthy company.

What happens if/when we get a new management team? Jerry retires and we get some bottom-line focused jerk? SAPA has absolutely no way to preserve what we have now.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

So if nobody wants ALPO what about teamsters? Seems to be working out for NetJets, at least for now that is..... Course a large part of the equation depends on management and if they are labor friendly or not.

wow. i wonder if a lot of the skywest cheerleaders out there got a strange, almost erie, feeling after reading the posts here. the original poster was dead on. its almost sad to read some of the posts on here to know that they supported and loved skywest, right up till skywest kicked them to the curb.

NetJets is no longer Teamsters. I think UPS pilots used to be Teamsters as well before voting them out.

SKW kicked one guy to the curb, but it hasn't changed much for everybody else day-to-day...there are still 2800 pilots. This does not mean that SKW has done a 180, they are a big organization, and may have factions with their own interests.

Either there is something we don't know, or somebody slipped through the cracks. No, we should not have up-or-out, and yes we should have an foolproof means of catching anyone who does slip through a crack.

But it's not like there has been some major realignment of the planets here... :rolleyes:

The Independent Pilots Association was formed in 1991...