Great Lakes
 

I am currently a flight Instructor. I have done some reserch about Great Lakes Airlines. Overall I like what I hear. I do want some Objective input about the Airline. I want the Good the Bad and the Ugly from current or former Pilots. Again I would really like the input to be Objective and any gouges on the interview (hopefully I will have one in the near future) would be much appreciated.

From what I've seen. They hire with low time 550TT is the lowest I've seen.
They have a 15 month training contract. Which is pretty standard. Upgrade time is fairly quick 15 months to a year and a half. Depending on age and merit.

They fly old b1900s with an old stack and no autopilot through some pretty turbulent, icey, mountainous areas. sounds like a pretty exciting flying job- unlike mine flying back and forth from FL to the Bahamas.

The drawl back is pay- $15per hour. Ouch- pretty low expecially for Denver.
I would add up all your current bills and make sure you can afford it.

I also suggest going into the search part of the forum and PM current pilots for further details.

Good Luck.

You lucky dog :D. Do you ever get to stay in the Bahamas?

Yeah,
I probably stay their (Abaco) (Nassua) a few times per month. I go over there about 3 per week. I been doing this over 2 years. i don't think I'll plan my next vacation to the bahamas thought.

loudgarrettdriver who do you fly for? I just joined the forum and i am not sure how to PM a current Great Lakes Pilot

does anyone know the average amount of flying a starting FO at Great Lakes does in a given month?

PM means Personal Message. You can go the the search section- type in great lakes and find a current pilot. Then click on the name- click send ---- a personal message.

But it looks like you need more posts (25) to PM. Anyway- keep post'n.

Lakes is what it is.

Cons:
- you will make $14,000-$15,000 as an F.O., $24,000-$25,000 as a captain,
- you will be junior manned,
- you will sit some 14-hour hot reserve, at the airport, in uniform, ready to fly,
- you will likely not have a contract (it's been 5 years now without one, and very little progress has been made),
- the company can work you up to 16 hours a day,
- you will not be paid for flying that the company takes off of your schedule,
- you will have to make it through one of the toughest 121 training programs in the industry...without pay (3 in my class of 8 couldn't cut it),
- you will work your a$$ off, sometimes flying 8 or more legs a day without enough time to grab a sandwich or take a dump,
- no flight attendent...which means you're the flight attendent,
- you will fly into and overnight in mostly small towns that you have probably never heard of, and there's a reason for that.

Pros:
- fastest upgrade around, sometimes in less than a year,
- you will build time fast (you can fly up to 34 hrs/7 days, 120 hrs/mo, and 1,200 hrs/yr),
- you will fly with a lot of great people,
- your flying skills will be better than they will ever be in your life, and you will develop balls of steel because you will HAND fly in some intense T-storms, snow storms, winds, turbulence, and icing,
- you will actually get to FLY an airplane into some airports with awe inspiring mountain views,
- the Beech is a tank, and it is very forgiving (nice characteristics to have for a relatively green Captain),
- any job you take after you get your time at Lakes will seem like a dream.

If you can tough it out for about 3 years to get your 1,000 PIC, you can move on to the next level in a hurry. Pilots who have left Lakes recently have gone on to Alaska, Frontier, AirTran, NetJets, FedEx, Kalitta, Pace, Ryan, Champion, and USA3000 just to name a few. If you want to get your time and get out, Lakes is a good place to do it. If you are looking for QOL, think twice.

how long is training? what can I do to prepare for it and what is the cause for the wash-out rate? also what is a typical schedule like...do you do 4 on 3 off or something like that?

"how long is training?"

From the day I started Indoc until the day I took my checkride was 1 day under a month. Most airlines take at least a month and a half to do the sam e amount of material. You will do 10 days of Indoc, 7-8 days of systems, about 4 days of sim, and 4-5 days of flight training (yes, you will do V1 cuts and single-engine approaches IN THE AIRPLANE). After that, you will have about a 4-5 day trip to complete your IOE.

"what can I do to prepare for it and what is the cause for the wash-out rate?"

When you accept a class date, a packet of system limitations and emergency memory procedures will be mailed to you. Memorize it completely and verbatim. Also, make sure your instrument skills are sharp. Take a 172 up and fly a full NDB approach, a circle, an arc to a VOR, and a hold, and fly them back to back to back at 100 kias, keeping in mind that you will be doing them at 160 kias in the Beech. The sim is very sensitive, and it will be glaringly obvious if your scan sucks.

I would say that the biggest reasons for the washouts are:
1) Lack of experience and maturity among new hire candidates. This is the first airline job for almost all of the new hires, and there is a ton of material that they have never seen or heard before.
2) The shear volume of material covered in a minimal amount of time. This is the definition of firehose training. Like I said earlier...what most airlines cover in 6-8 weeks, we cover in 4. A typical daily schedule in training looks like this:
0700: wake up (earlier if you need to do some last minute studying)
0800: class starts
1200-1300: lunch
1700: class ends
1730-1800: dinner
1800-0000: study non-stop
You will probably only get a total of about 3 days off during the entire training period, and, if you aren't from the Denver/Cheyenne area, you won't be able to go home during training.
3) The company wants to see you sweat a little bit, so they put some pressure on you. The interview was just the beginning, you need to prove yourself in training. They have very little invested (financially) in you up to that point, and if you can't cut it during training, you definitely won't be able to cut it on the line, so they are willing to cut their losses if need be. Remember, your hire date is your checkride date, so you aren't even an employee during training. This makes it very easy for the company to cut bait. It's not very difficult to find another pilot to replace you that can start next month.

"what is a typical schedule like...do you do 4 on 3 off or something like that?"

That would be really nice if it was. You get 10 days a month off guaranteed...and that's all that's guaranteed. Oh yeah, and if they need you, they can junior man you on your days off.

[QUOTE=FLYBOYMATTHEW]
Pros:
- fastest upgrade around, sometimes in less than a year,
- you will build time fast (you can fly up to 34 hrs/7 days, 120 hrs/mo, and 1,200 hrs/yr)=QUOTE]


just and observation but doesn't FAR limit you to 1000hrs a year???

[
That would be really nice if it was. You get 10 days a month off guaranteed...and that's all that's guaranteed. Oh yeah, and if they need you, they can junior man you on your days off.[/QUOTE]

When you say they can "junior man you on your days off" does that mean it can cut into that 10 day Minimum. How long do you think it would take me to build up enough "seniority" for them to stop doing that?

Yes is does, both domestic and flag operations are limited to 1000 hours per year.

KiloAlpha,... You should review 121.470 if you think Lakers are flying under 1000 Hrs per year under 121 Domestic ops...........because they're not.

Oh yeah, i guess a B1900 doesnt meet the requirements for part 121.

does anyone know where the interview for great lakes is and how you get there? do they fly you there?

121.470 permits Lakes, and other airlines flying 30 seats or less, to comply with 135.261-135.273 with regards to flight time limitations and rest requirements. Yes, it is still a Part 121 airline, but the Beech and the Brasilia both meet these requirements.

A fat line may be blocked to about 95 hours or so, but there are also high-speed (a.k.a. stand up overnight) lines that are blocked at about 45 hours for the month. You can legally fly up to 120 hours per month, 34 hours in 7 consecutive days, and 1,200 hours per year by picking up open time if you choose.

Interviews are held in Greeley, CO, which is just north of Denver. I believe the policy is that they will fly you in on Lakes from one of the cities (towns?) we serve, but I think it's your responsibility to get to one of those cities.

i heard that Great Lakes no longer flys the Brasilia..is that fact or fiction?

Fiction as of right now...I have never heard that?

good deal

I believe Lakes is currently flying 5 Brasilias, and they are currently looking at bringing another one on-line. Rumor has it that the Brasilia may be the workhorse of the flightline in the not-to-distant future. As the some of the 1900D's approach 25,000 hours (next couple of years), it will become financially prohibitive to perform the required maintenance inspections. At that time, the company likely will need to find a/c to replace them. With the operating costs of the 30-seat Brasilia very close to that of the 19-seat Beech, it seems like the logical replacement, allbeit a hangar queen.

thats good news flyboymatthew do you work for Great Lakes?

Flier2005- You should check out a site that has the interview gouge on it called aviationinterviews.com.. it is free. I have posted my experience on there from a August interview. I just had a friend upgade in the beech in 10months and my other friend is about to do the same. I know quite a few people there...all are flying the beech but one. Your interview is in front of two people and last only 15-20min. Study your jepp plates/charts and know EVERYTHING. The sim is in a pcatd and is a very simple profile. So practice on your Microsoft simulator in the baron. They like to see a lot of instrument time and letters of rec from anybody you might know that works there. Good Luck

I am...as they say..."still living the dream" at Lakes.

hey do you know if they are still hireing... any figures would be great. I sent in a resume about a month ago and all I got so far is a post card. I figure I have not heard much because of the holidays but who really knows?

There wasn't one in December due to the holidays, but there is going to be a new hire groundschool in January. Since May 1, I believe there have been 5 new hire classes despite losing 5 Beech 1900s this past summer. Classes have been considerably smaller than in the past, and have averaged about 6-8 new hires per month. There is normally only one class per month, and it generally starts towards the beginning of the month. The demand for new pilots is driven solely by attrition at this point, so the number, frequency, and size of classes is determined by how many pilots are leaving.

If you want to get in, you pretty much need to know someone that works for Lakes and have them give your resume to the Chief Pilot. I hope this helps, good luck!

Been there
 

a quick rundown on the operations

scheduled 5 day trips, min 10 days off a month, airport reserve is 14hrs, first year pay is 15.32. perdiem is a $1 even. they just took away the crewroom so now the pilots hang out with the rampers in ops. but other than that if fun flying.

flyboymatthew
 

FBMatthew,
I am looking for a pilot at lakes. I tried to pm you and am unable. Could you pm me? I will reply with his name.
Thanks
snopilot

Depending on were you want to live, i would look into Air mid west (mesa) the pay is alittle better the treatment is worse. but you will fly 100 hours a mounth. Upgrade in about 3 mounths. no kidding

True, but there's no guarantee that you'll get the 1900. You'll need ATP mins or close to it. And you couls still get the jet (1 1/2 - 4 year upgrade)

I tried to PM you, but I think you may not have enough posts yet to accept PMs, or maybe you don't have your profile set up to receive PMs. You might want to try to look on the Lakes forum for this person at www.readytocopy.com.

FBM
Thanks, i think it is due to my post count. I will check on readyto copy.
snopilot

Any updated hiring info...

Class dates? how many?

Recent hires: TT/ME?

Thanks

looking for 1900D
 

Well if you are looking for the 1900 job at Mesa I know they are not running another class for at least a month. This month alone they have 15 in a 1900 class and 60 in the jet classes (CRJ/ERJ). I have heard that they will be running a dash 8 class next month but nothing for sure yet. As far as times there are many ppl with right on the 1000/ 100 min but several of the ppl in 1900 class have over 3000/ 1000 due to the DEC hiring right now

XtremeF150

I know that Great Lakes is starting a B1900 class March 6th, my friend is starting in that class.
I also heard that they are still interviewing people. So put in your resume if you have the time.

Thanks for the update on Great Lakes - keeping fingers crossed for a call.