ASA and SKYW to merge pilot seniority lists!
10-30-2007, 06:20 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Finally a Capt.
Posts: 125
I have no idea. I think we all just like to watch this forum and debate each other. Its one great big water cooler........... but it is fun, beats watching dancing with the stars which I can't stand! Am I alone on that too?
10-30-2007, 06:24 PM
#12
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by bla bla bla
Just another “small” reason to vote ALPA on skyw property.
Word on the street is that management is going to merge asa and skyw fairly soon. Asa’s new contract has limited managements ability to “whipsaw” us, making a merger their best option.
For those not familiar with how a merger would work, this is what “would” happen if skyw had no representation. Asa’s mec would put together a proposal on integration benefiting them. Sapa would put together a proposal benefiting skyw pilots. Asa’s mec would not allow sapa to be part of the negotiations because they are not a union as defined by the rail way labor act. Asa would come in unified and organized with alpa’s resources and negotiating experience, skyw would try to use sapa, when that fails we would be left to fend for disorganized, un-unified selves.
Just talked to another guy who met with the asa mec and got the low down on their views. He said the asa guys are sick of us riding others coat tails and are ready to staple us on the bottom of the list!
For more information on how a merger would work with both sides having representation read this. http://www.skywestalpa.org/documents...ut.Mergers.pdf
Guy's/Gal's, skyw is a good company to work for, but things are about to change you can no longer just remain apathetic with your career, if we don’t get organized and unified as a pilot group we will really get hosed! If you haven’t voted yet, take some time to research this out very carefully in the next few days. Don’t take my word for it do your own research, A lot more is at stake than you might think!
Word on the street is that management is going to merge asa and skyw fairly soon. Asa’s new contract has limited managements ability to “whipsaw” us, making a merger their best option.
For those not familiar with how a merger would work, this is what “would” happen if skyw had no representation. Asa’s mec would put together a proposal on integration benefiting them. Sapa would put together a proposal benefiting skyw pilots. Asa’s mec would not allow sapa to be part of the negotiations because they are not a union as defined by the rail way labor act. Asa would come in unified and organized with alpa’s resources and negotiating experience, skyw would try to use sapa, when that fails we would be left to fend for disorganized, un-unified selves.
Just talked to another guy who met with the asa mec and got the low down on their views. He said the asa guys are sick of us riding others coat tails and are ready to staple us on the bottom of the list!
For more information on how a merger would work with both sides having representation read this. http://www.skywestalpa.org/documents...ut.Mergers.pdf
Guy's/Gal's, skyw is a good company to work for, but things are about to change you can no longer just remain apathetic with your career, if we don’t get organized and unified as a pilot group we will really get hosed! If you haven’t voted yet, take some time to research this out very carefully in the next few days. Don’t take my word for it do your own research, A lot more is at stake than you might think!
The real facts are that as long as Skywest is non-union there will NOT be a merger. If asa and skywest would merge it would instantly make skywest alpa. So why would JA and co spend all this time and money to keep alpa off just so they can get it on property anyway? You are right about the asa mec wanting to staple skywest, this is what they have been wanting to do since they filed that single carrier petition all those months ago. Just ask yourself how much of a brotherhood it really is? ASA mec members saying that they are going to make us pay if we don't play their way. If you are for or agaisnst alpa realize that at the regional level there is no brotherhood anymore, there only is at the majors where there is no threat of losing flying or being underbid is there really a brotherhood. You can get a kickass contract where you make 40$ 2nd year pay on an rj as an f/o but that won't last because there will always be an alter-ego or a mesa ready to underbid you. You have to get payrates and a contract that isn't the best but isn't the worst so everyone is about equal. If cost too much you may just price yourself out of a job, just look at the 190 rates for USair. Mainline pilots are starting to realize that they dropped the ball on scope and would rather keep the rjs at their airlines to secure their jobs.
As for the 4th carrier, there are in talks with one and from what I understand none of the 4 carriers competing for this contract are alpa, there is a reason for that. If we vote in alpa the entire thing runs a risk of not happening.
Another thing to consider is what will happen with United. UAL will probably reduce skywests flying as we already preform 1000 of the 1800 uax departures, they would be forced to reorganize due to the threat of a strike. Just look at what delta has done with asa and comair since the comair strike. Think about it, do you think UAL will want all their uax flying west of the rockies under risk of a strike?
The best thing that skywest pilots can do if they are happy with the current situation is take their ballot and shred it. Don't listen to people who are trying to fearmonger you into voting for alpa for risk that you won't get a job if you don't or you will be stapled to the bottom fo the asa list. Its just more dishonest tactics done by the alpa oc, much like the way the voting is being done. Just ask the people coming from TSA or Mesa what they think about alpa and 80% will so vote no. Alpa only works at the independant majors not at the regional level. If we vote no the only thing that will happen is we will probably get more flying and a payrase.
Remember if you don't want alpa don't vote at all. If 51% of people vote and even if alpa only gets 40% it will give alpa the victory because any vote for anyone is counted as a vote for a union and the NMB will take the "candidate" with the most votes and declare them the winner. So when alpa supporters tell you to go ahead and vote even if you are anti-alpa they are trying to fool you into getting alpa more support. Thats dishonest
Last edited by Slaphappy; 10-30-2007 at 07:30 PM.
10-30-2007, 07:10 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: rj 700/900
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
Nice fearmongering it's about the only thing that the alpa oc can do at this point considering how badly the vote is going.
The real facts are that as long as Skywest is non-union there will NOT be a merger. If asa and skywest would merge it would instantly make skywest alpa. So why would JA and co spend all this time and money to keep alpa off just so they can get it on property anyway? You are right about the asa mec wanting to staple skywest, this is what they have been wanting to do since they filed that single carrier petition all those months ago. It also shows how much of a "brotherhood" this would be.
As for the 4th carrier, there are in talks with one and from what I understand none of the 4 carriers competing for this contract are alpa, there is a reason for that. If we vote in alpa the entire thing runs a risk of not happening.
Another thing to consider is what will happen with United. UAL will probably reduce skywests flying as we already preform 1000 of the 1800 uax departures, they would be forced to reorganize due to the threat of a strike. Just look at what delta has done with asa and comair since the comair strike. Think about it, do you think UAL will want all their uax flying west of the rockies under risk of a strike?
The best thing that skywest pilots can do if they are happy with the current situation is take their ballet and shred it. Don't listen to people who are trying to fearmonger you into voting for alpa for risk that you won't get a job if you don't or you will be stapled to the bottom fo the asa list. Its just more dishonest tactics done by the alpa oc, much like the way the voting is being done. Just ask the people coming from TSA or Mesa what they think about alpa and 80% will so vote no. Alpa only works at the independant majors not at the regional level. If we vote no the only thing that will happen is we will probably get more flying and a payrase.
Remember if you don't want alpa don't vote at all. If 51% of people vote and even if alpa only gets 40% it will give alpa the victory because any vote for anyone is counted as a vote for a union and the NMB will take the "candidate" with the most votes and declare them the winner. So when alpa supporters tell you to go ahead and vote even if you are anti-alpa they are trying to fool you into getting alpa more support. Thats dishonest
The real facts are that as long as Skywest is non-union there will NOT be a merger. If asa and skywest would merge it would instantly make skywest alpa. So why would JA and co spend all this time and money to keep alpa off just so they can get it on property anyway? You are right about the asa mec wanting to staple skywest, this is what they have been wanting to do since they filed that single carrier petition all those months ago. It also shows how much of a "brotherhood" this would be.
As for the 4th carrier, there are in talks with one and from what I understand none of the 4 carriers competing for this contract are alpa, there is a reason for that. If we vote in alpa the entire thing runs a risk of not happening.
Another thing to consider is what will happen with United. UAL will probably reduce skywests flying as we already preform 1000 of the 1800 uax departures, they would be forced to reorganize due to the threat of a strike. Just look at what delta has done with asa and comair since the comair strike. Think about it, do you think UAL will want all their uax flying west of the rockies under risk of a strike?
The best thing that skywest pilots can do if they are happy with the current situation is take their ballet and shred it. Don't listen to people who are trying to fearmonger you into voting for alpa for risk that you won't get a job if you don't or you will be stapled to the bottom fo the asa list. Its just more dishonest tactics done by the alpa oc, much like the way the voting is being done. Just ask the people coming from TSA or Mesa what they think about alpa and 80% will so vote no. Alpa only works at the independant majors not at the regional level. If we vote no the only thing that will happen is we will probably get more flying and a payrase.
Remember if you don't want alpa don't vote at all. If 51% of people vote and even if alpa only gets 40% it will give alpa the victory because any vote for anyone is counted as a vote for a union and the NMB will take the "candidate" with the most votes and declare them the winner. So when alpa supporters tell you to go ahead and vote even if you are anti-alpa they are trying to fool you into getting alpa more support. Thats dishonest
Yes there is a good chance that if they merge seniority we will become alpa, the reason being is we will be one pilot group and entitled to a vote for or against alpa, with all asa voting for alpa it would take just a few skyw guys to bring alpa on. The problem is that this would happen after skywest was stapled to the bottom of the list during integration.
Don’t think for a second that skyw is going to stop its expansion due to a union, sorry but that is laughable... Their job is to expand and increase share holder value, it will happen with or without a union. If management can’t expand skyw with a reasonable union, well then they should not be running the company.
And FYI this has nothing to do with the oc, just a few pilots concerned with their future that are in no way associated with the oc. I respect your right to choose representation here at skyw, that’s what makes our country great. I just hope for our seniority’s sake that we get ALPA voted in.
And from what I have heard and seen it is looking really good for representation.
10-30-2007, 07:16 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: rj 700/900
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by SkyWestPilot1
I have no idea. I think we all just like to watch this forum and debate each other. Its one great big water cooler........... but it is fun, beats watching dancing with the stars which I can't stand! Am I alone on that too?
I prefer to debate about unions and such in the internet....
10-30-2007, 07:19 PM
#15
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
The best thing that skywest pilots can do if they are happy with the current situation is take their ballet and shred it.
Why would you want to shred a ballet? That seems so unsophisticated, and even cruel.
[Psssst. Try
with a built-in Spell Check.].
10-30-2007, 07:28 PM
#16
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by bla bla bla
Brother please back up your facts with, well facts.
Yes there is a good chance that if they merge seniority we will become alpa, the reason being is we will be one pilot group and entitled to a vote for or against alpa, with all asa voting for alpa it would take just a few skyw guys to bring alpa on. The problem is that this would happen after skywest was stapled to the bottom of the list during integration.
Don’t think for a second that skyw is going to stop its expansion due to a union, sorry but that is laughable... Their job is to expand and increase share holder value, it will happen with or without a union. If management can’t expand skyw with a reasonable union, well then they should not be running the company.
And FYI this has nothing to do with the oc, just a few pilots concerned with their future that are in no way associated with the oc. I respect your right to choose representation here at skyw, that’s what makes our country great. I just hope for our seniority’s sake that we get ALPA voted in.
And from what I have heard and seen it is looking really good for representation.
Yes there is a good chance that if they merge seniority we will become alpa, the reason being is we will be one pilot group and entitled to a vote for or against alpa, with all asa voting for alpa it would take just a few skyw guys to bring alpa on. The problem is that this would happen after skywest was stapled to the bottom of the list during integration.
Don’t think for a second that skyw is going to stop its expansion due to a union, sorry but that is laughable... Their job is to expand and increase share holder value, it will happen with or without a union. If management can’t expand skyw with a reasonable union, well then they should not be running the company.
And FYI this has nothing to do with the oc, just a few pilots concerned with their future that are in no way associated with the oc. I respect your right to choose representation here at skyw, that’s what makes our country great. I just hope for our seniority’s sake that we get ALPA voted in.
And from what I have heard and seen it is looking really good for representation.
Common sense backs up mine.
Like I said before Skywest would never merge asa and skywest as it would bring in alpa regardless, thus creating an airline with 5000 union pilots and managment knows they would never be able to control that. Its much easier to keep the airlines seperate, plus they don't think ASA would jive well with their corporate culture. As long as we stay non-union they will never even think about a merger for the reasons I just stated. Now if we do vote in alpa it will happen and ASA has a much more tested and tried mec that would fight tooth and nail to make sure ASA pilots get a 1up on skywest. Our Mec would be brand new many of whome have never even been in a union.
Also seeing as how it took almost a year to get about 50% of the cards from people, many from whom have long left skywest, I don't think it will even be close, my guess is only 40% in favor.
10-30-2007, 07:52 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: rj 700/900
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
Common sense backs up mine.
Like I said before Skywest would never merge asa and skywest as it would bring in alpa regardless, thus creating an airline with 5000 union pilots and managment knows they would never be able to control that. Its much easier to keep the airlines seperate, plus they don't think ASA would jive well with their corporate culture. As long as we stay non-union they will never even think about a merger for the reasons I just stated. Now if we do vote in alpa it will happen and ASA has a much more tested and tried mec that would fight tooth and nail to make sure ASA pilots get a 1up on skywest. Our Mec would be brand new many of whome have never even been in a union.
Also seeing as how it took almost a year to get about 50% of the cards from people, many from whom have long left skywest, I don't think it will even be close, my guess is only 40% in favor.
Like I said before Skywest would never merge asa and skywest as it would bring in alpa regardless, thus creating an airline with 5000 union pilots and managment knows they would never be able to control that. Its much easier to keep the airlines seperate, plus they don't think ASA would jive well with their corporate culture. As long as we stay non-union they will never even think about a merger for the reasons I just stated. Now if we do vote in alpa it will happen and ASA has a much more tested and tried mec that would fight tooth and nail to make sure ASA pilots get a 1up on skywest. Our Mec would be brand new many of whome have never even been in a union.
Also seeing as how it took almost a year to get about 50% of the cards from people, many from whom have long left skywest, I don't think it will even be close, my guess is only 40% in favor.
"Corporate culture"? I think you have us confused with SouthWest....
10-30-2007, 08:11 PM
#18
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by bla bla bla
Skyw is going to do what will save the most money period, having two management teams doing the exact same job makes no sense. Like I said the whipsaw effect is all but eliminated now with asa's new contract. Sure they will always push against unions to try to keep us divided. And if they thought asa would not jive well with their "corporate culture" then they would have not bought them. It’s a just matter of time before we merge.....
"Corporate culture"? I think you have us confused with SouthWest....
"Corporate culture"? I think you have us confused with SouthWest....
Managment doesn't need to whipsaw skywest, we are non-union.
and yes I think skywest is like the southwest of the regional world, that is why we are the best at what we do and all our partners love us, so much so that we may have a number 4 soon.
10-30-2007, 08:16 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Telecom Company, President
Posts: 421
" alpa’s resources and negotiating experience "
PURE HORSE CRAP!!!
ALPA is the worst thing to ever hit the USAirways property and any of our career expectations. Vote NO FRIGGEN WAY on ALPA.
PURE HORSE CRAP!!!
ALPA is the worst thing to ever hit the USAirways property and any of our career expectations. Vote NO FRIGGEN WAY on ALPA.
10-30-2007, 08:38 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: rj 700/900
Posts: 506
Look I’m trying to be as tactful here as possible, but you have no clue my friend.
When your seniority number drops by 1,000, because your rumor of a "fourth carrier" pushed you to keep ALPA out, don’t say we never told you so.... That’s a big risk you’re going to take on hearsay....
And FYI skyw bought asa in a large part to protect their dal contracts, one very smart move by our management. They secured a 15 year deal with the dal Bk judge before he really knew what was going on. Uhhhh asa is going nowhere...
Pssst, hope you have not "shredded your ballot" yet.
When your seniority number drops by 1,000, because your rumor of a "fourth carrier" pushed you to keep ALPA out, don’t say we never told you so.... That’s a big risk you’re going to take on hearsay....
And FYI skyw bought asa in a large part to protect their dal contracts, one very smart move by our management. They secured a 15 year deal with the dal Bk judge before he really knew what was going on. Uhhhh asa is going nowhere...
Pssst, hope you have not "shredded your ballot" yet.
